Originally posted by WildBantha88
1. Vos wasn't at his peak when he fought Agen.2. Vos's beating Sora was circumstantial. Sora toyed with him the entire duel and could have beat him any time until at the end he started getting sloppy.
Proof that he was sloppy, that's your opinion not a quantifiable fact that lessens Bulq's skill.
Who cares if Vos wasn't at his peak, Vos still has superior dueling feats to anything displayed by team one. I don't think you know the meaning of the word "circumstantial":
Depa being amped by residual darkside energies from a battle that killed people, dueling an opponent who was injured/uninterested in dueling, is a circumstantial fight due to factors at the time.
Originally posted by carthage
You have no problem accepting the validity of Depa's feats in spite of having virtually no other showings (like Tiin) I can see. Also I don't really care about entertaining your theoretical notion of "how fast she might be". Again fighting faster than non force sensitives or beings that can't compete with Jedi speed isn't impressive compared to the showings of B team.
Let's see some of your past theoretical notions hm?
- Saesee Tiin sparred with Mace. That must mean Tiin = Mace and Tiin is > Kas'im because of it. Even though in sparring matches they clearly hold back, if you believe otherwise than you concede that the HOU is on the highest tier possible.
- The Inquisitor TK'ed Kanan and despite having no other showings. He[The inquisitor] > Sirak Because he Tk'ed Kana, so he has to be good amirite?
Also by that logic, Fisto's Magna guard speed is also unimpressive due to it being fighting with great speed "against non force sensitves and beings that can't compete with Jedi speed"
So was she amped or not? You're being inconsistent. If she was amped by Vaapad as you stated on Page 1, then any and all of her speed feats would be a result of her Vaapad amp which was circumstantial due to where she was fighting Mace. She won't receive such a amp in this battle, and you can't even seem to clarify your position as to whether or not she was amped.
She was amped in her fight against Mace because she was using Vaapad, you git, I was saying that nothing states she was amped during the gunship sequence. You even answered it down below. Nice to see you can't make a point without twisting my words.
The Jungles of Haruun Kal radiated with darkside energy, and where they were fighting there had been a battle and people died. There would've been some residual darkside energy there, not enough to make her 00ber but enough to put her above an injured Windu in speed. You also admitted she was amped due to Vaapad.
In her fight against Mace Look at the damn text again, git.
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Yeah, he's vague about it though - until Kar Vastor comes into play that is. For the entire Gunship fight sequence with Mace and Depa nothing stated she was being amped.
Nice to see you can't win this without cutting out the rest of the text or twisting my words.
She already had her lightsaber in hand, and its irrelevant or not if Vastor was present there or not. As the text shows there was residual darkside energy present that she drew upon.
LMAO, Present or not? Nice trick if you were up against someone who didn't read the novel, but i finished it Days ago, and Vastor was present
Which says nothing about her skill/feats 👆. Yoda also deemed the Yinchorri dangerous, and other random things in his time. That says nothing about her skill as a duelist, and he only did so with reference to the people on Haruun Kal.
It speaks of her overall prowess. She was dangerous, not to mention he does praises her as a warrior:
"Member of the Jedi Council, she is. Powerful Jedi. Brilliant warrior-"
--Shatterpoint.
Please learn to delineate between examples, Fisto is just as skillfull and a superior swordsmen to Depa. Any advantage in his form is completely a separate issue to an amp Depa received by circumstance due to fighting in a place at least radiating in dark power somewhat. So what if he wasn't at his peak, Depa has no showings to compare to Fisto's defeat of him, fighting faster than Obi wan could perceive, and wrecking magnaguards.
Speedsblitz 24 armed men in less then a minute, moved faster than the eye could follow, but you'll just keep ignoring that
You criticize me for lowballing yet you did just that? Regardless, Vos beating Aayla, beating Bulq, and fighting Tholme are still superior feats to anything shown by team 1. Bulq was also considered one of the best swordsmen the Jedi ever produced, no one on team 1 has bested someone on that caliber.
Dude, give something that's HIGHLY impressive from Aayla and Tholme. Agen only beat a unskilled Quinlan Vos even Dooku regarded his skill as atrocious, it wasn't until Quinlan trained that He bested Bulq. Stop trying to make it seem as though Kolar beat Quinlan at his peak, because that is BS.
You and I had both already made that a point? How can I concede to something that you also acknowledged? She also had an additional amp, and Mace had no desire to fight her which you keep leaving out.
Yeah, he had no desire to fight her, Again I reiterate, She still was forcing him into falling fully into Vaapad because she was too strong, too fast and too everything for him
How many times do I have to repeat that.
That would be laughable if the Sith Gnost beat had any feats that compared to Kenobi's, Grievous's, Vos's, Tiin's, or Fisto's speed. If they don't have comparable feats of speed, than it's completely irrelevant to whether or not he was faster than them- because he'd still be slower than either Tiin or Fisto.
What Speed does Tiin have lmao, Vos? you mean Vos before his time? because that's the one Tiin fought. I already gave you their feats, you just ignore them, because you're a troll.
You seem to have no problem accepting sparring matches as valid showings for Depa, and no problem accepting hype for Ragnos. I never even made a reference to Tiin's skill with a blade, I've brought up his force feats the entire time. He is considered one of the best bladesbeings of the order, and that alone by implication (which you base your assessments of Depa/Ragnos o) would still put him at least on a high tier.
Dude, I said, that Depa did that in a sparring match and I even admitted that she held back because it was a freaking sparring match, All i stated was that "Even in a sparring match her blade seemed everywhere, imagine if she was being serious' I wasn't being a dumbass and saying "She sparred with Mace, she WTFPWNS111!!" don't twist my words. as for the ragnos thing, I Called featless dude, Hell yesterday Tempest and I talked about ranking people solely on accolades and I stated this:
[17:30:54 04/11/14] @ Fated Xtasy : And Ragnos?
[17:31:33 04/11/14] Tempest : Yep.
[17:32:22 04/11/14] @ Fated Xtasy : Huh, ironically, i don't rank Ragnos that high. Saesee tiin and Hord as well, they are too unexplored to be ranked fairly and correctly
Stop twisting my words, Carthage.
So Fisto being above Qui Gon, AOTC Kenobi, and surpassing the aforementioned speed feats would put him well above the showings of team 1, as you've provided nothing to surpass the showings I've listed.
That's impressive, but the same could be said for all of team 1.
Which is why you tried to reference Depa's circumstantial feat of a sparring match, attempted to pass of Jaden's lame feat of killing stormtroopers and droids (as an attempt at humor) no less 👆. Please try to stay on point. [/B]
It's not Jaden's feat dumbo, it's a feat for the clones, it was a joke, what do you want me to get you the Webster dictionary so you van understand the meaning of that word?. And i already explained the Depa thing.
Regardless, Team 1 wins. This conversation is over. I concede nothing.
Let's see some of your past theoretical notions hm?- Saesee Tiin sparred with Mace. That must mean Tiin = Mace and Tiin is > Kas'im because of it. Even though in sparring matches they clearly hold back, if you believe otherwise than you concede that the HOU is on the highest tier possible.
Dude, you just tried to pass off Depa sparring with Mace as a feat on page 1. What proof do you have they are holding back, and never once in this debate have I ever even bought up Tiin sparring with Mace. I said he was one of the best duelists in the order, and that at least by reasonable inference would place him as a good duelist (note I even said Gnost Dural was better in sabers). Bringing up my past posts is not relevant to the discussion at hand, and again I haven't even been speaking about his skill so much as the proven abilities of Kolar/Fisto.
The Inquisitor TK'ed Kanan and despite having no other showings. He[The inquisitor] > Sirak Because he Tk'ed Kana, so he has to be good amirite?
I gave a clear explanation of my opinion in my thread. Sirak only bested Bane due to Bane's connection to the force being compromised. The Inquisitor in his duel took out two guys at once, and my reference to his superior force abilities is due to Sirak having next to no showings that compare to that TK feat. They're both featless, but one's dueling feat i,e the Inquisitor is superior in my opinion.
Also by that logic, Fisto's Magna guard speed is also unimpressive due to it being fighting with great speed "against non force sensitves and beings that can't compete with Jedi speed"
It would mean something if random guards were equal to Magnaguards who were built specifically for the express purpose of killing Jedi 👆. Magnaguards are faster than human guards:
They walked like they were made to fight, and they had clearly seen some battle. The
chest plate of one bore a round shallow crater surrounded by a corona of scorch, a direct
blaster hit that hadn't come close to penetrating; the other bore a scar from its cranial
dome down through one dead photoreceptor—a scar that looked like it might have come
from a lightsaber. This droid looked like it had fought a Jedi, and survived. The Jedi hadn't, he
guessed, hadn't
Magnaguards were specifically built to fight Jedi, and they can operate at the speed of force sensitives unlike the guards that Dural ran faster than. I've never denied they were fodder, but Fisto dismembering them before they react is still a superior speed feat than appearing as a blur to normal human beings.
e was amped in her fight against Mace because she was using Vaapad, you git, I was saying that nothing states she was amped during the gunship sequence. You even answered it down below. Nice to see you can't make a point without twisting my words.
Yet you continually try to represent her amped duel as her actual combat speed, and your point is moot considering the jungle would've amped her regardless as it did to Vastor. I didn't twist your words you just can't type clearly evidently.
Speedsblitz 24 armed men in less then a minute, moved faster than the eye could follow, but you'll just keep ignoring that
I guess it would matter if those guys were 24 magnaguards or at least a being that is capable of perceiving the movements of a force sensitive?
What Speed does Tiin have lmao, Vos? you mean Vos before his time? because that's the one Tiin fought. I already gave you their feats, you just ignore them, because you're a troll.
If you were following the debate I've listed them multiple times on the prior pages, Saesee has formed a shield out of his blade, moved fast enough to appear in three places, moved his blade as a blur, etc.. I won't bother listing Vos's because you can just go back and see them yourself. You never posted the quotes for Jaden's, Gnost is slower than Fisto and Tiin, and that's about it. Cry more.
Dude, I said, that Depa did that in a sparring match and I even admitted that she held back because it was a freaking sparring match, All i stated was that "Even in a sparring match her blade seemed everywhere, imagine if she was being serious' I wasn't being a dumbass and saying "She sparred with Mace, she WTFPWNS111!!" don't twist my words. as for the ragnos thing, I Called featless dude, Hell yesterday Tempest and I talked about ranking people solely on accolades and I stated this:
I could care less for your conversation with Tempest, and I never ever brought up Tiin's duel with Windu in this conversation. You're bringing up irrelevant nonsense.
That's impressive, but the same could be said for all of team 1.
It would if Gnost had speed feats that put him above Qui Gonn, Depa had any feats at all, and you actually posted the speed feats for Jaden from your respect thread. 👆
It's not Jaden's feat dumbo, it's a feat for the clones, it was a joke, what do you want me to get you the Webster dictionary so you van understand the meaning of that word?. And i already explained the Depa thing.Regardless, Team 1 wins. This conversation is over. I concede nothing.
All that to say you bow out of the debate without even challenging the fact that the fighters of B team are more skillfull, faster, and better duelists than the characters you wank over?
Your inadvertent concession is accepted, then.
Originally posted by Arhael
Arguing in favor of B-team does not make sense. Accolades cannot be quantified. Non of B-team have any decent feats. All they have is a fight against Sidious, where they proved to be complete trash, which proves them to be some of the least impressive characters in the mythos.
👆
Originally posted by NewGuy01
If it isn't any trouble, could you give the surrounding text so I can make sense of the line?
No trouble at all dude 🙂 Here ya go:
"If she must be. stopped," he said at length, "I may be the only one who can do that, too." Palpatine's eyebrows twitched polite incomprehension.Mace took a deep breath, finding himself once more looking at his hands, through his hands, seeing only an image in his mind, sharp as a dream: lightsaber against lightsaber in the Temple's training halls, the green flash of Depa's blade seeming to come from everywhere at once.
He could not unmake what he had made.
There were no second chances.
Her voice echoed inside him: Nothing is more dangerous than a Jedi who's finally sane, but he said only- "She is a master of Vaapad." In the silence that followed, he studied the folds and wrinkles of his interlaced fingers, focusing his attention into his visual field to hold at bay dark dream-ghosts of Depa's blade flashing toward Jedi necks."
Also, that seems like a nice little accolade for her too. This will look great on the respect thread. 😄
