Originally posted by Delta1938
Er.....what?No, you do have to back your opinion. You made a big deal about Orion fighting Black Adam, and your primary argument that this is impressive is your opinion of Adam>Superman. Without you citing your opinion of Adam>Superman, your example is meaningless based on how you presented it.
Translation: "I don't like it, so it's a low showing for Orion." Saying the New Gods "aren't shown to their full capabilities" is a Hail Mary for someone without a better argument. And considering all the examples I can show of Superman's powers being dynamic in nature, I can make the same argument for Superman if I wanted. In fact, I can show you a number of times of Superman coming off as superior to Orion. But I take it you'll dismiss them as "bad writing," "PIS" and "low showings?" Not that they don't exist, but most of the time people use that to dismiss examples they don't like.
Scans aren't working, but I've already read the fight. Have the comic myself so I don't need your scans. And if you pay attention, all it proves is Superman doesn't have to be careful like he does against normal people. No proof he's holding back significantly less than against Captain Marvel or even Orion.
By the way, the writer specifically had Superman state Black Adam is more powerful than Captain Marvel. So that portrayal of Black Adam would be superior to the portrayal of Black Adam that Orion fought.
The scan you showed also stated "hits harder too."
Superman straight-up says Orion surprised him.
You also leave-out that this was Superman in his early days. SUPERMAN CONFIDENTIAL takes place in Superman's first year or so. Superman's had multiple power-ups between this and later fights, so if you complain "bad writing" because Superman takes the Astro-Force and doesn't get KOed in later fights, citing SUPERMAN CONFIDENTIAL #9 doesn't do much even if we ignore Superman's narration of being surprised.
Maybe because the whole prophecy thing is brought up? The scan before your scene.
And the second scan you posted had Orion say Darkseid's heart was "Firepit enough." Have anything to indicate Orion has the strength to do that under normal circumstances? The whole emphasizing of "pffft you're no threat, there's no Firepits" from Darkseid and Orion's "your heart is Firepit enough" is a pretty strong indication this is not viable to use in general.
Outside the fact that you keep leaving out context on Superman being KOed, this is largely irrelevant to me as I never argued for Thor. Simply the numerous issues with your arguments(and there's other problems I didn't address, like your arguments of Darkseid vs Superman to bolster Orion being out of context). I have to wonder if you've even read the comics you're citing scans from, or just grabbed them from Respect Threads like others have said.
I stated that "in my opinion" it was a low showing, his fight against superman, which is not me saying that means anything or that it is a low showing.
ON PREVIOUS PAGES I HAVE THE FULL FIGHT OF SUPERMAN VS ORION, I DID NOT FEEL LIKE POSTING IT MULTIPLE TIMES.
I EVEN SAID IN MY POST THAT ORION TRIES TO HIT SUPERMAN BUT SUPERMAN GETS THE 1ST SHOT AND THEN ORION ONE SHOTS HIM, JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT READ MY COMMENTS DOES NOT MEAN THAT I AM MISSING THINGS.
How at all does orion saying "firepit enough" change the fact that he plunged his fist into darkseids chest, he was strong enough to do this and no amount of whining will stop that.
You cannot prove that orion's strength was enhanced when he did that to darkseid so why are you even talking.
"By the way, the writer specifically had Superman state Black Adam is more powerful than Captain Marvel. So that portrayal of Black Adam would be superior to the portrayal of Black Adam that Orion
fought."
Lol no it does not, what the writer states has nothing to do with the other scan and the fact that one writer states one thing does not mean that black adam was less powerful when he fought orion, nice abc logic.
I am glad that you can point out the error in my argument because it is better than being carter or anyone else in this thread, the difference between them and me is that i have an argument to point out the flaws of, they don't.
I see you've ignored points I've made. So, I'm going to pick something random and ignore it, until you acknowledge it and either concede you don't have an answer, or provide an adequate counter.
Originally posted by thingy150
I stated that "in my opinion" it was a low showing, his fight against superman, which is not me saying that means anything or that it is a low showing.
It's quite clear your intention was to subtly sway people into thinking if Orion is stalemating Superman in a low showing, then Orion>Superman, and since you're arguing Superman>Thor, well, you know what you're trying to do.
Originally posted by thingy150
ON PREVIOUS PAGES I HAVE THE FULL FIGHT OF SUPERMAN VS ORION, I DID NOT FEEL LIKE POSTING IT MULTIPLE TIMES.I EVEN SAID IN MY POST THAT ORION TRIES TO HIT SUPERMAN BUT SUPERMAN GETS THE 1ST SHOT AND THEN ORION ONE SHOTS HIM, JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT READ MY COMMENTS DOES NOT MEAN THAT I AM MISSING THINGS.
And you ignored "he caught me by surprise." Writer's intention and all that. And left out Superman's had power-ups since. Which is a big problem because your argument is Superman>Thor in durability, but you'll have to prove that for Superman before he had a single power-up. Otherwise your argument of Orion one-shotting Thor falls apart even if we pretend the "he caught me by surprise" was never stated.
Originally posted by thingy150
How at all does orion saying "firepit enough" change the fact that he plunged his fist into darkseids chest, he was strong enough to do this and no amount of whining will stop that.You cannot prove that orion's strength was enhanced when he did that to darkseid so why are you even talking.
You ignored my point about Orion showing anything close to this. But I guess you don't understand the actual scene. Let me try and translate it into something you'd understand.
ORION: "YO B!TCH I'MMA KILL YO ASS 'TIL YO DEAD MAH NIZZLE!!!!"
DARSEID: "LULZ Dare no Fiyah Pits hear. U talk mad shit you no kill me!!"
ORION: (rips out heart) "UR HEART IZ FIYAH PITS ENUFF!!!!"
DARKSEID: "ZOMG WTF id u doz?!!?!?!?!?"
So, to sum it up. Orion hasn't done anything like this to my knowledge. Orion says he'll kill Darkseid. Darkseid specifically cites the prophecy, and basically says Orion can't. Orion does, and brings-up Darkseid's heart fulfilling the prophecy. Unless you can prove Orion has done anything else on this level under normal circumstances, everything indicated this isn't something he could anybody on Darkseid's level BUT Darkseid.
Originally posted by thingy150
"By the way, the writer specifically had Superman state Black Adam is more powerful than Captain Marvel. So that portrayal of Black Adam would be superior to the portrayal of Black Adam that Orion
fought."Lol no it does not, what the writer states has nothing to do with the other scan and the fact that one writer states one thing does not mean that black adam was less powerful when he fought orion, nice abc logic.
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. I will point-out the great irony here though.
Originally posted by thingy150
I am glad that you can point out the error in my argument because it is better than being carter or anyone else in this thread, the difference between them and me is that i have an argument to point out the flaws of, they don't.
Others have had arguments. You're just not good enough to realize it, I guess.
Originally posted by thingy150
Skimmed through it, did you spend a really long time on this?In my opinion adam is greater or = superman, i did not say he was so i do not have to provide scans but they have fought evenly before.
In my opinion the superman vs orion where they fight evenly is a low showing, orion and all of the new gods are not shown to their full capabilities. Orion with his astro force that can destroy worlds and absorb things that would have broken the universe should always be superior than superman in a fight.
Superman states here that he does not have to hold back when fighting adam.
A few of the scans are missing but adam holds his own against superman when superman is not holding back and adam did not want to fight in the first place.
Black adam is greater than superman as a combat feat because he is never holding back, superman is constantly holding back and this is why fighting black adam is a better feat then superman.
I actually have the full scans of superman and orion somewhere here if you want them pasted together here you go:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/pic003.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/pic004.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/pic005.jpgSuperman dodges the first attempts from orion to hit him, superman gets off the first hit, orion eats it and then one shots him.
They were both full aware that they were fighting before orion ended the fight.
How is orion killing darkseid out of context, he plunges his fist into darkseids chest, that shows power.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/67877/2412021-countdown2p18.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/67877/2412022-countdown2p19.jpgHe is able to do this to someone as durable as darkseid, that is a hell of a feat.
Orion uses his astro force to the best of its ability whereas the way thor fights he normally tries to brawl. Thor will not use his equipment well enough to beat orion. Orion i have shown to be faster and he can absorb whatever thor can throw at him with the astro force.
The astro force has one shotted beings like superman and has been stated to be able to destroy planets along with the fact that it can create force fields that resend the attack back onto the person who threw the attack.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120267/3074966-4531493966-orion.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120267/3074967-3039840796-orion.jpgThe astro force was able to deflect darkseids omega beams and return it right back to him.
The astro force can disintegrate things on an sub atomic level along with being able to deflect powerful blasts and absorb things that can destroy the universe. The astro force can do much more than this also.
The way i think orion wins is by fighting smarter and using his resources better than thor. Thor is not as fast as orion and has been shown to be slower than wolverine.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/3575114-thor.jpg
Orion will win by absorbing thors attacks and being able to dish out things that can destroy planets, along with the fact that orion is faster and more durable, Orion wins.
Orion has like two fights with Superman. You know what? Brainiac made Orion his ***** alongwith Lightray.
Originally posted by abhilegendHits Doomsday hard enough to draw blood.
Not under the same writer. And the same writer had Darkseid oneshotting surfer with omega beams and we all know how Superman vs Darkseid goes. You know who else has made Orion his ***** worse than even Surfer? Brainiac.http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16388362/ActionComics705p22.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16382814/ManOfSteel40p02.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16382815/ManOfSteel40p03.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16382816/ManOfSteel40p04.jpg.htmlHe pretty much beat up whole New Genesis after oneshotting Orion and Lightray together. Then he got even more powerful.
Then he merges with a portion of his power which was used to create a mental creation of Superman's exact double (it was tested to be superman's equal repeatedly and even went toe to toe with superman) to be even more powerful.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16392533/AdventuresOfSuperman519p04.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16392534/AdventuresOfSuperman519p05.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16392535/AdventuresOfSuperman519p06.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16392536/AdventuresOfSuperman519p07.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16391650/AdventuresOfSuperman519p11.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16391651/AdventuresOfSuperman519p12.jpg.htmlSuperman beat the ever loving shit out of Brainiac.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16391651/AdventuresOfSuperman519p12.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16391652/AdventuresOfSuperman519p13.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16391653/AdventuresOfSuperman519p14.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16391654/AdventuresOfSuperman519p15.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16391655/AdventuresOfSuperman519p16.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16391657/AdventuresOfSuperman519p17.jpg.htmlSo according to you, Superman>Darkseid>Brainiac>Orion. Good.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/DoomsdayWBlood1.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/DoomsdayWBlood2.jpg
In the very same comic Doomsday was literally no selling every attack from Orion and J'onn.
http://s1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/?action=view¤t=dw_jla3.jpg
http://s1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/?action=view¤t=dw_jla4.jpg
Beats the shit out of Orion and J'onn combined in less than one minute.
http://s1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/?action=view¤t=dw_jla14.jpg
http://s1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/?action=view¤t=dw_jla15.jpg
While Superman was taking his attacks in stride.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/DurabiliyDDWars1.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/DurabiliyDDWars2.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/DurabiliyDDWars3.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/DurabiliyDDWars4.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/DurabiliyDDWars5.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/DurabiliyDDWars6.jpg
Even more insane is later when he willingly takes an enormous beating from Doomsday , who makes it clear he wants to kill him, along with every weapon in the coluan city focused on him. He stays conscious and outsmarts Doomsday.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/DurabilityDDWars7.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/DurabilityDDWars8.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/DurabilityDDWars9.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/DurabilityDDWars10.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/DurabilityDDWars11.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/DurabilityDDWars12.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/DurabilityDDWars13.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/DurabilityDDWars14.jpg
Darkseid directly said that not even Orion has been able to fight Omega Beams.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/FightsOmegaBeams.jpg
Beats Darkseid where he mentions that not even his son (orion) has been able to do it.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesdsapoknow1.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesdsapoknow2.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesdsapoknow3.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesdsapoknow4.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesdsapoknow5.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesdsapoknow6.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesdsapoknow7.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesdsapoknow8.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesdsapoknow9.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesdsapoknow10.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/supesdsapoknow11.jpg
And yeah, Darkseid has manhandled Orion with one hand.
Even Superboy has held his own against Orion in h2h. Shrinking Violet has owned him, ****ing Cosmic Boy owned him.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Shrinking violet takes an astro force blast and bitchslaps Orion.Cosmic boy owns Orion
Maxima has owned him. Firestorm has owned him. Do you want me to continue?
