question for other atheists/nonbelievers

Originally posted by Greatest I am
If so, what was God choosing Jesus for here?

Let me help you. It was to die. Now tell us why Jesus was being sacrificed.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

You might want to look up the apostles creed.

Regards
DL

are you freakin' serious, GIA? really... why don't you just admit that you're wrong? or admit that you don't know anything about the book you're criticizing? your post nor the verse you provided never really "helped" anything... it only shows how desperate you are in maligning Christianity... the "apostles' creed" is made up by the catholics, FYI so that really doesn't count... if you weren't that stubborn, all you need to do is to read and understand the posts of those who are discussing with you...

first, the Father sent His Son to preach the Gospel, He didn't intend to kill His own Son, in fact, if you are knowledgeable in the Bible, in one of Jesus' parables, the Father's thinking is that the people will respect His Son:

"He had still one other, a beloved son; finally he sent him to them, saying, They will respect my son."
Mark 12:6

it is the Jews who killed Jesus... but He is the Son of God, and if He never wanted to, they can never kill Him...

"When he said to them, I am he, they drew back and fell to the ground."
John 18:6

if Jesus never sacrificed or offered Himself, they can never kill Him... by merely uttering some words, the band of soldiers drew back and fell to the ground... now, why did He offered Himself?

"She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins."
Matthew 1:21

"And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
Hebrews 10:10

Jesus' mission is to save the people from their sins and be sanctified... is His death needed? of course!

"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Romans 6:23

the wages of sin is death... now, let us answer the question: is mankind condemned? you don't really know the meaning of "condemned", GIA?

"Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."
Matthew 12:31

that's what's condemned, GIA... mankind is not condemned... in fact, there are two kinds of sin in the Bible:

"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that."
I John 5:16
RSV

sin that is mortal and not mortal... in other words:

"If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that."
NKJV

so there is a sin that leads to death (mortal) and another one that does not lead to death (not mortal)... so eventhough all people have sinned - as was written in Romans 5:12 - not all people are condemned... in fact, infants, children and even those people who are mentally challenged or disabled are of the kingdom of God!

"But Jesus said, Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 19:14

"And said, Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 18:3-4

mankind condemned? you don't know anything, GIA... really...

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Yes, scriptures are clear that man is fallen and needs Jesus' death to put thinks right.

Why do you think Christians fly the cross if it was not important to them?

Regards
DL

Being important, being helpful may be a thing, it's same to say christians believe in general than Jesus died for something.

You go much further, you say it was a necessity.

Originally posted by dyajeep
the "apostles' creed" is made up by the catholics, FYI so that really doesn't count...

So is the current selection of books in most christian bibles. Just saying, you can't brand something as a "catholic invention" and assume it just "doesn't count".

Originally posted by Bentley
So is the current selection of books in most christian bibles. Just saying, you can't brand something as a "catholic invention" and assume it just "doesn't count".

in context, however, whatever GIA says about Christianity doesn't count... 😛

Originally posted by Bentley
[B]Being important, being helpful may be a thing, it's same to say christians believe in general than Jesus died for something.

You go much further, you say it was a necessity.

Not me. Barbaric human sacrifices are not a good way to forgive sins.

Listen to this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkle6URiM4s

Did you notice that they say that Adam's sin was a necessary evil and a happy fault.

They had to see it that way from the stupid way they set up their myth.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by dyajeep
in context, however, whatever GIA says about Christianity doesn't count... 😛

The Inquisition doesn't count. Ok.

Please do not promote it again though. That would be evil.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Not me. Barbaric human sacrifices are not a good way to forgive sins.

Listen to this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkle6URiM4s

Did you notice that they say that Adam's sin was a necessary evil and a happy fault.

That last argument is an awful "we live in the best of worlds" kind of reasoning. But I've seen more outrageous claims in video that in my opinion just don't represent the thinking on mainstream christianity.

What if when we die this guy greets us by saying "hello my name is Jesusbuddahallahmuhhamed"

Originally posted by Greatest I am
The Inquisition doesn't count. Ok.

Please do not promote it again though. That would be evil.

Regards
DL

nobody in the planet promotes that... maybe only you as an exception...

Originally posted by Bentley
That last argument is an awful "we live in the best of worlds" kind of reasoning. But I've seen more outrageous claims in video that in my opinion just don't represent the thinking on mainstream christianity.

Ok. What they sing and write about is not what they believe. That is a good argument for anything Christian.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Spawningpool
What if when we die this guy greets us by saying "hello my name is Jesusbuddahallahmuhhamed"

I will know what to do with him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oL4FWJjOuk

But seriously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPJQw-x-xho

Regards
DL

God Bless you all and may God Bless this thread and may souls be saved by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by dyajeep
nobody in the planet promotes that... maybe only you as an exception...

Well, if I were to do to Christianity what it did to Gnostic Christianity, that would be fair play as reciprocity is fair play.

I would not as I do not advocate violence but the pope and many Christians do.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/15/pope-francis-limits-to-freedom-of-expression

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
God Bless you all and may God Bless this thread and may souls be saved by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Let's see if you are even aware of the immorality you promote.

Imagine you have two children. One of your children does something wrong – say it curses, or throws a temper tantrum, or something like that. In fact, say it does this on a regular basis, and you continually forgive your child, but it never seems to change.

Now suppose one day you’ve had enough, you need to do something different. You still wish to forgive your child, but nothing has worked. Do you go to your second child, your good child, and punish it to atone for the sins of the first?

In fact, if you ever saw a parent on the street punish one of their children for the actions of their other child, how would you react? Would you support their decision, or would you be offended? Because God punished Jesus -- his good child -- for the sins of his other children.

Interestingly, some historical royal families would beat their slaves when their own children did wrong – you should not, after all, ever beat a prince. The question is: what kind of lesson does that teach the child who actually did the harm? Does it teach them to be a better person, to stop doing harm, or does it teach them both that they won't themselves be punished, and also that punishing other people is normal? I know that's not a lesson I would want to teach my children, and I suspect it's not a lesson most Christians would want to teach theirs. So why does God?

For me, that’s at least one significant reason I find Jesus’ atonement of our sin to be morally repugnant – of course, that’s assuming Jesus ever existed; that original sin actually exists; that God actually exists; etc.

Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

And that immoral thinking is what you are promoting.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Ok. What they sing and write about is not what they believe. That is a good argument for anything Christian.

Regards
DL

Not every interpretation of an object can be the right interpretation. Their phrasing could be an exalted kind of speech and not to be taken literally for all I care.

Originally posted by Bentley
Not every interpretation of an object can be the right interpretation. Their phrasing could be an exalted kind of speech and not to be taken literally for all I care.

A literalist would disagree.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
A literalist would disagree.

With the second statement, they'd firmly agree with the first one.

Unless of course literalist are people unable to use language when it comes to their faith. I've seen people locked in terminology, which makes sense when they think words are divine Tools and not just conventional communication. Since those people don't speak an actual language when it comes to faith, I can't really reason about it.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
I would not as I do not advocate violence but the pope and many Christians do.

the problem is, Catholics do not represent the whole Christianity... some of Catholic doctrines are not even in accordance with the Bible...

Originally posted by dyajeep
the problem is, Catholics do not represent the whole Christianity... some of Catholic doctrines are not even in accordance with the Bible...

Does anyone other than Christ represents the whole christianity?

Originally posted by Bentley
Does anyone other than Christ represents the whole christianity?

Even assuming correction for mistakes in the language construction here, the answer may be "No", but Dyajeep is right -- the Catholic Church is often EXTREMELY far off from what the Bible actually instructs followers.

Catholics dont even read or follow the bible. They pray more to Mary then Jesus or God the Father.