ROTS Sidious vs. Maul, Dooku, Vader

Originally posted by Sinious
TPM Maul is one of my fave PT characters but that my boy is a concession.

If you are right, then you shouldn't have to say Vader > Maul, while Maul kicked Vader's ass in the Resurrection comic.

Vader was a crippled & sick man, shadow of former himself, hardly matches with PT powerhouses. And Dooku despite his mastery of the force and his dueling skills, had a great weakness and he was using his full potential. TCW Maul better than both. That is why he had become a rival.

Originally posted by Marco1907
If you are right, they you shouldn't have to say Vader > Maul, while Maul kicked Vader's ass in the Resurrection comic.

How is that an asskicking exactly?

Vader was a crippled man, hardly matches with PT powerhouses. And Dooku despite his mastery of the force and his dueling skills, had a great weakness and he was using his full potential. TCW Maul better than both. That is why he had become a rival.

1) I've already explained to you why Maul was no rival to Sidious.

2) AOTC Dooku > TPM Maul

3) ROTJ Vader > TCW Maul

Sidious has grown in power throughout the story and so did the quality of his apprentices.

Originally posted by Sinious
How is that an asskicking exactly?

Did you really read that comic ? If not, you are grasping at straws again. TPM Maul > Vader

YouTube video

Not to mention Lucas himself declared as Maul > Vader.

YouTube video

''Crippled half droid half man'' , ''Wanted to see Prime Jedi''

Vader hardly matches with PT powerhouses here, while Maul and Dooku easily could.

I didn't want to lowball Vader but, he is really the weak link here. Stalemated with Old Ben Kenobi, (both Dooku and Maul could beat prime Kenobi), hardly beat ESB Luke, and lost to RotJ Luke.

TCW Maul > Dooku > TPM Maul > Vader.

Originally posted by Sinious

Sidious has grown in power throughout the story and so did the quality of his apprentices.

Quite opposite.

Originally posted by Sinious

1) I've already explained to you why Maul was no rival to Sidious.

That's your baseless claim. I already showed you why Sidious considered Maul ''as a rival'' ...

''Maul had grown more powerful since the last time he’d been in Sidious’s presence, but strong as he had become, Maul found himself in awe of Sidious.''
- Shadow Conspiracy Novel

Yet you are trying to refute this with a baseless claim.

What we have ;

- Vader vs. Maul battle in comic book

- Sidious's own words about ''rivalry''

- Lucas's own words about ''prime jedi and sith''

What you have ;

- Baseless claim

Originally posted by ILS
Tbh Grievous would solo Sidious. Sidious just moves like a blur to guys like Maul - Grievous actually vanishes from Kenobi's perception altogether and also attacks him faster than he can register. Couple that with his ****ing uber strength, unorthodox combat which Sidious will be ill-equipped to deal with, and his height advantage.. isn't looking good for the scrotum.

And of course Maul, Dooku or Vader could all shit on Grievous so it only stands to reason they would shit on Sidious as well, even individually.

I don't know what you're trying to get at here, but DP proved that superhuman speed is non-existent among SW characters because he doesn't see slow motion in the back ground during saber fights.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Did you really read that comic ? If not, you are grasping at straws again. TPM Maul > Vader

YouTube video

I did before and took a quick look again now cause you sounded so sure of yourself that I took felt the need to check to see if I was missing something.

Lets see, Maul traps pre-ANH Vader into his ground, where he expects him and wants to fight him and then he dies.

"They believed they could provide me with a superior apprentice. Yet you were victorious."

Not to mention Lucas himself declared as Maul > Vader.

YouTube video

''Crippled half droid half man'' , ''Wanted to see Prime Jedi''

Where exactly does Lucas say Maul > Vader?

Vader hardly matches with PT powerhouses here, while Maul and Dooku easily could.

Proof?

I didn't want to lowball Vader but, he is really the weak link here. Stalemated with Old Ben Kenobi, (both Dooku and Maul could beat prime Kenobi), hardly beat ESB Luke, and lost to RotJ Luke.

But you did like you always do.

Keep using his non-prime showings. No one's buying it. 👆

Against Luke? In ESB Luke held his own but ultimately, he was no match for him. In ROTJ, it was a very circumstantial fight and that proves how powerful Luke can be when enraged.

TCW Maul > Dooku > TPM Maul > Vader.

lmao

That's your baseless claim. I already showed you why Sidious considered Maul ''as a rival'' ...

''Maul had grown more powerful since the last time he’d been in Sidious’s presence, but strong as he had become, Maul found himself in awe of Sidious.''
- Shadow Conspiracy Novel

Yet you are trying to refute this with a baseless claim.

What we have ;

- Vader vs. Maul battle in comic book

- Sidious's own words about ''rivalry''

- Lucas's own words about ''prime jedi and sith''

What you have ;

- Baseless claim

What we have here is a fanboy taking words out of context and presenting them as delusional arguments. Tempest already refuted your arguments on TCW Maul vs TCW Sidious and taking pre-ANH Vader as an example is a wrong way to look at this.

Baseless claim? I'm not the one who compares Maul to Sidious 😆

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah I know. Sort of like how Sidious was clearly superior to Windu when he was begging for mercy.

Like Master like Apprentice. Am I rite?

Had Maul been pretending to be scared, you'd be right.

@sinious

*Grasping at straws...

I showed my sources to you, yet you are ignoring it. So be it, let's end this here.

Originally posted by Marco1907
@sinious

*Grasping at straws...

No offense but that fits you a lot more tbh.

I showed my sources to you, yet you are ignoring it. So be it, let's end this here.

You show sources but they don't prove what you want them to prove.

If you wanna go with Lucas quotes(Even though you have none regarding Maul > Vader) then Lucas also said that Vader is %80 of Sidious where in TCW, Sidious proved how vastly superior he is to Maul.

Originally posted by Sinious
No offense but that fits you a lot more tbh.

You show sources but they don't prove what you want them to prove.

If you wanna go with Lucas quotes(Even though you have none regarding Maul > Vader) then Lucas also said that Vader is %80 of Sidious where in TCW, Sidious proved how vastly superior he is to Maul.

Speaking of said quote, seeing as people have never seem to have found it.

I finally did! So here folks, the quote that people keep saying is about, but never have been able to find it! Or well...from what many say.

“Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful,” he says. “But he ended up losing his arms and a leg and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because, as a living form, there’s not that much of him left. So his ability to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he’s maybe 20 percent less than the Emperor.

Source: http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/features/2005/02/star-wars-george-lucas-story#

Page 3, 2nd paragraph.

Ok yes, it doesn't exactly say 80% but even still, it's the closest thing that we have.

But /shrug, I just wanted to mention it cause I thought it was a neat little thing and after seeing people reference it over and over again, yet no source being found, I figure it's about time it saw the light!

Yeah he says %20 less.

I personally don't go by such quotes when placing characters but Marco is trying so hard to prove his points with Lucas etc. quotes, I've decided to use his methods against him. 😎

lol

Originally posted by Sinious
Yeah he says %20 less.

I personally don't go by such quotes when placing characters but Marco is trying so hard to prove his points with Lucas etc. quotes, I've decided to use his methods against him. 😎

Eh tbh, I just posted it just...well to post it. 😛 Not really having anything to do with the battle at hand, so apologies for the small derailment, I just thought it was a neato thing to post.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Eh tbh, I just posted it just...well to post it. 😛 Not really having anything to do with the battle at hand, so apologies for the small derailment, I just thought it was a neato thing to post.

No worries brobeans. I think Marco needs to read it again anyway.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I don't know what you're trying to get at here, but DP proved that superhuman speed is non-existent among SW characters because he doesn't see slow motion in the back ground during saber fights.

No that's not what I proved at all. I proved they're not "invisible". If they were Pre-Vizsla would never have been able to go toe to toe with Maul. And that's a damn cartoon.

I suppose your theory is that either:

A. Lucasfilm doesn't have the special effects to properly display "invisible" super speed. Not even in their animations or

B. It was simply artistic. Every single time, in every single Visual medium.
And that the only "real" speed is described to fans in the novels. So if you're not a SW Legends Eu fan you'll have no clue as to how fast they really are.

Still none of that explains how Pre-Vizsla fights Maul, and how Jango Fett fights Kenobi and Windu, and even kills Jedi. And how Hondo goes toe to toe with frigging Anakin Skywalker!

I'll explain again to see if you can understand the point this time.

They have clear superhuman reflexes, coordination. And clear superhuman speed when they leap around. Our when they sprint.

But in their normal striking and movements during Lightsaber fights- All the visual evidence Live action and Animation shows "slight" superhuman speed at best. The only thing that contradicts that so far are Legends Novels.

Now maybe it'll be different next year when Episode 7 changes that(might even see something on the trailers this year). But in the mean time the evidence so far is lacking. And evidence supporting the contrary is plenty.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Had Maul been pretending to be scared, you'd be right.

What you think Sidious wouldn't beg for his life? And that's just a Maul thing? LOL

No it's a Sith thing. They desperately cling to life.

Maul learned well from Sidious. As Sidious proved when he begged Mace not to kill him. He may have been indirectly begging Skywalker to save him, but he WAS begging for mercy.

Sidious wasn't serious when he begged. He just wanted to sound innocent for Anakin to join him. Lucas says this. 😬

Originally posted by Marco1907
then he retcon it by saying ''Maul beats Dooku 7 of 10.''

What? Where did he say that?

Bro, SOD Maul was still not experienced enough to match the likes of Dooku and Vader (although I could see TCW "Revival" Maul giving Dooku serious trouble when he had the Huge legs giving him beastly strength).

I'm sure SOD Maul would give them a run for their money but that's it. Perhaps if he survives another 10 years then he could surpass them. Perhaps. But his potential has also been capped.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Sidious wasn't serious when he begged. He just wanted to sound innocent for Anakin to join him. Lucas says this. 😬

Talking about the final scene when Windu is about to strike him. Pretty sure Lucas was talking about the part where he's going on about being weak.

In any case All Sith are scared to die, so pretty much all would beg in that situation.

Maul just learned his lessons well off Sidious 😛

Omg Sinious ****ing curbstomped Marco lmfao

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Sidious wasn't serious when he begged. He just wanted to sound innocent for Anakin to join him. Lucas says this. 😬

But Maul was in mandalore right ? Double standard**

And Lucas never said that, he said Sidious was behaving like weaker than really is, he pretend like in a dying state and can't move even a finger. Which was not true, he was really defeated but he just pretend like a dying man.

Originally posted by Sinious

If you wanna go with Lucas quotes(Even though you have none regarding Maul > Vader) then Lucas also said that Vader is %80 of Sidious where in TCW, Sidious proved how vastly superior he is to Maul.

lmfao

another baseless claim, did you understand when I said ''baseless claim'' ? I meant this, you said Vader is %80 of Sidious, yet Maul is unknown and you don't know him. How do you know that TCW Maul is not %90 of Sidious ? This is why you have baseless claims nothing more.

Originally posted by Dionysus
Omg Sinious ****ing curbstomped Marco lmfao

Well, you just said this because you like Vader, and you don't like Maul, at least be honest about it.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
What? Where did he say that?

Bro, SOD Maul was still not experienced enough to match the likes of Dooku and Vader (although I could see TCW "Revival" Maul giving Dooku serious trouble when he had the Huge legs giving him beastly strength).

I'm sure SOD Maul would give them a run for their money but that's it. Perhaps if he survives another 10 years then he could surpass them. Perhaps. But his potential has also been capped.

😛

He said this in his twitter account, I asked him how many rounds TCW Maul can win out of 10 against Dooku, like 3 of 10 or 6 ? He said 6 is fine and maybe even 7 because Maul would never give up until he completely done.

I am serious about this, Vader was really a weak link. Shadow of his former self, only weapon of Vader is TK, and that really is, he is too slow for PT powerhouses. That is why he never become a ''rival'' to Sidious. Not to mention Lucas himself said that Vader was at the same level with old Ben Kenobi, he was not like PT prime Jedi and Sith.

@Marco

Originally posted by Marco1907
I think you are mistaken with Jeremy Barlow, yeah he said something like this, then he retcon it by saying ''Maul beats Dooku 7 of 10.''

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
What? Where did he say that?