Originally posted by thingy150
Are you you serious? SUPERMAN HAS A HUGE SPEED AND REACTION TIME ADVANTAGE OVER THE HULK, HE DOES NOT NEED TO KNOCK HIM OUT TO BFR HIM. LOL TO ME IT LOOKS LIKE YOU LOST AN ARGUMENT TO SOMEONE AND NOW YOU ARE COMING HERE AND COMPLAINING ABOUT BFR.DAMN KIDS ON THIS FORUM ARE SO BIASED IT IS NOT EVEN FUNNY, YOU CANNOT WIN ARGUMENTS SO YOU JUST IGNORE THINGS AN MAKE SH*T UP.
SUPERMANS SPEED AND REACTION TIME IS HOW HE BFR'S HULK, BOTH NEW 52 SUPERMAN AND POST CRISIS HAVE GONE FTL AND THEY BOTH HAVE INCREDIBLE REACTION TIME SCANS.
First off I'm not carver. Secondly i don't have an account at comicvine i just ghost there from time to time. Thirdly bfr as a tactic against bricks who cant fly is rarely used. It's played up big on message boards but not in actual comics. Everyone wants to go h2h, even pacifist like Radd who prefer blasting eventually succumbs to fisticuffs. Imo the editors or whoever at the big houses don't believe its a likely or rather a good ending to a fight
Say Thor is fighting a rampaging Hulk. Thor decides to bfr him to another state. That's NOT gonna stop his rampage. He's gonna get back up wreck more shit and continue doing whatever he was doing in the first place. Plus the amount of power they'd have to unleash to remove said character from the battlefield would generally speaking leave them depleted. I just think there are better options
This is a comic forum, we discuss the power sets and what people could do if the plot was not required, the reason you do not see a lot of bfr in comic is because it is too easy.
With a speed advantage and a flight advantage one of the obvious conclusions is that bfr could take place.
People like superman could literally grab hulk and fly him to outer space before he knows what happens.
The reason op's often say "no bfr" is because it is an easy and logical way to win an argument.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
We also take their character into account, not just powersets.Otherwise, Flash rips everyone's eyes out at lightspeed....
BFR has nothing to do with no morals. Obviously character plays a role but a lot of the time we have heroes fighting each other for no reason, isn't that a tad out of character, not all fights are completely in character and if they were a lot of the fights would not even be happening.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Exactly. I was on comicvine earlier and read an argument stating supes would just grab hulk and fly him to the moon. First off he'd have to k.o him first (which wouldn't happen) and if he didn't k.o. him grab him and fly him fast enough that he couldn't react without hulk hitting him or breaking his hold. Its just not viable
if Clark is flying at lightspeed how will hulk break free, does he have faster than light reaction or something?
Sin's crazy statement about Superman not being able to K.O Hulk notwithstanding ( 😛 ) BFR seems to only be put into play when it's
a) Someone who fights very logically (Nimrod)
b) It's impossible to win (Skaar, Thor)
c) They don't really care about proving that they're stronger/more powerful (WWH)
Let's also consider that BFR is incredibly boring and that comics need to sell.
Exactly.
Not to make this into a Superwankfest, but clause a) is actually quite major.
You have a guy like pre-DCnu Clark, who is a prize winning journalist, and a member of one of the most advanced civilisations in the DC galaxy, AND a member of their major science family....NOT fighting logically? When he faces Parasite, a guy who gets stronger as time progresses, should he stay and engage in fisticuffs until Parasite becomes strong enough to be a threat?
Or, say, WW, who knows every battle tactic under the sun, and doesn't let pride get in the way (like say, with Thor sometimes) - do we really suspend our belief and say she would continue fighting until she gets KOed? If she sees she's losing, and can use a cheap win (lasso, BFR) she will take it.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Exactly.Not to make this into a Superwankfest, but clause a) is actually quite major.
You have a guy like pre-DCnu Clark, who is a prize winning journalist, and a member of one of the most advanced civilisations in the DC galaxy, AND a member of their major science family....NOT fighting logically? When he faces Parasite, a guy who gets stronger as time progresses, should he stay and engage in fisticuffs until Parasite becomes strong enough to be a threat?
Or, say, WW, who knows every battle tactic under the sun, and doesn't let pride get in the way (like say, with Thor sometimes) - do we really suspend our belief and say she would continue fighting until she gets KOed? If she sees she's losing, and can use a cheap win (lasso, BFR) she will take it.
Neither diana or clark would choose bfr in a one on one bout imo
Originally posted by krisblaze
Sin's crazy statement about Superman not being able to K.O Hulk notwithstanding ( 😛 ) BFR seems to only be put into play when it'sa) Someone who fights very logically (Nimrod)
b) It's impossible to win (Skaar, Thor)
c) They don't really care about proving that they're stronger/more powerful (WWH)
Let's also consider that BFR is incredibly boring and that comics need to sell.
He won't. Not going h2h
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Even if they were losing?
U have a instance of her doing so?
Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman generally does when the threat is greatest. Doomsday, Darkseid, that stupid issue with Parasite (though not the only time hes tried that with Parasite iirc).
How much physical contact does parasite require?
Originally posted by Sin I AM
He won't. Not going h2hU have a instance of her doing so?
How much physical contact does parasite require?
Was referring to her using her lasso as a cheap win.
In threads where that's been turned off, as she has the cheap win mindset, why not BFR? But I can try and have a look.
Originally posted by krisblaze
Theres just absolutelt no reason to think that Superman couldnt knock out the Hulk. Regardless of your opinion on that fight that is a ridiculous stance to take.There isnt anyone Superman can bring down with enough punches.
Really? Sounds like you're lowballing a lot of characters
bfr sucks in the forum and i've long been a proponent of having it removed as an option. it happens in comics, which is cool, but it has always been poitnless in a forum match imo. ONE of the big reasons is because it DOES end discussion, hence limiting discussion regarding actual battles. in a default situation, the arena is domed anyway (or it always was before...) and so the option is never viable unless a special stip or environment is expressly stated in the OP. and when it IS viable, it's useless as it is generally indefensible by one party. so...wtf is the point? it leads to no discussion, it doesn't solve the question of who is more powerful and it generally gives one side an indefensible advantage. very productive tactic. 👆
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Really? Sounds like you're lowballing a lot of characters
But its obviously the opposite when you think, contrary to thousands of Hulk comics.., that its not possible for Superman to knock out the Hulk 😐
It truly boggles the mind. How powerful do you think the Hulk is for it to be impossible for arguably the strongest herald to not be able to knock him out? Superman swings out of his paygrade so often that the Hulk would have to range far above Skyfather for it to be an impossibility that Superman is capable of knocking him out..
Originally posted by Sin I AM
He won't. Not going h2hU have a instance of her doing so?
How much physical contact does parasite require?
Honestly depends on the writer. Sometimes Parasite doesn't even need physical contact, just proximity.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Really? Sounds like you're lowballing a lot of characters
You think Superman can't physically knock out certain other heralds?
Re: Bricks & BFR
Originally posted by Sin I AMIt depends on how smart/stupid the comic writer is (or, more charitably, how willing they are to ignore physics for the sake of telling a good story).
but how viable is that tactic in a real bout?
For Superman, there is absolutely no reason he wouldn't be able to easily BFR a straight brick like Grundy. He would literally just have to slap the bottom of their chins and, for all their strength, they would find themselves rocketing into space. Flying bricks like Superman can withstand BFR more easily due to their ability to outright deny inertia with their flight, but a grounded brick would have absolutely no defense.
It also would definitely not deplete most of his power. It would be the easiest thing in the world to do. Also incredibly anticlimactic. That's probably why it doesn't happen too often.