Bricks & BFR

Originally posted by leonidas
bfr sucks in the forum and i've long been a proponent of having it removed as an option. it happens in comics, which is cool, but it has always been poitnless in a forum match imo. ONE of the big reasons is because it DOES end discussion, hence limiting discussion regarding actual battles. in a default situation, the arena is domed anyway (or it always was before...) and so the option is never viable unless a special stip or environment is expressly stated in the OP. and when it IS viable, it's useless as it is generally indefensible by one party. so...wtf is the point? it leads to no discussion, it doesn't solve the question of who is more powerful and it generally gives one side an indefensible advantage. very productive tactic. 👆

This right here contains some very excellent points.

Originally posted by -K-M-
So if he wasn't ko'ed how did he get chained up then? Politely ask him to walk over to yhe rock so they can chain him up?

If he wasn't ko'ed why was he dead weight and lifeless as he flown through the air? If he wasn't ko'ed why didn't he just come right back instantly?

Because Zeus beat the slob out of him, that's why. If you beat someone long enough, it's possible they can't move or fight back against you whatever you are trying to do. Then it's Zeus...no telling how Hulk got chained up.

I don't know...I guess he was dead weight because he cant fly. Maybe if he danced in the air, that would've been proof that he was awake. All in all, you dont have any proof of him being koed.

Originally posted by carver9
Because Zeus beat the slob out of him, that's why. If you beat someone long enough, it's possible they can't move or fight back against you whatever you are trying to do. Then it's Zeus...no telling how Hulk got chained up. Then again first panel of him on the rock was him waking up.

I don't know...I guess he was dead weight because he cant fly. Maybe if he danced in the air, that would've been proof that he was awake. All in all, you dont have any proof of him being koed.

Exactly. So if he is lifeless and has no strength to fight back is it really different from a ko? The answer would be no. Even in boxing and mma that would be ruled as a TKO (technical knock out)

Or he would have moved or did something other then go into a dead weight pose. Hulk can jump for miles and has been hit in the air before and he actually showed life. Here he was lifeless and dead weight. All and all you if you actually look at the facts he was. Why didn't he come back then carver? Hmmmmm?

Originally posted by -K-M-
Exactly. So if he is lifeless and has no strength to fight back is it really different from a ko? The answer would be no. Even in boxing and mma that would be ruled as a TKO (technical knock out)

Or he would have moved or did something other then go into a dead weight pose. Hulk can jump for miles and has been hit in the air before and he actually showed life. Here he was lifeless and dead weight. All and all you if you actually look at the facts he was. Why didn't he come back then carver? Hmmmmm?

He wasn't asleep so he wasn't koed.

We don't know if he was koed. Him not moving his hands or figures isn't proof of him being koed. Why would he jump back at the monster when the monster walked off after slapping Hulk?

Originally posted by carver9
He wasn't asleep so he wasn't koed.

We don't know if he was koed. Him not moving his hands or figures isn't proof of him being koed. Why would he jump back at the monster when the monster walked off after slapping Hulk?

You don't actually have to be asleep to be ko'Ed. Even once again inreal life there are standing KO's and the people weren't actually asleep. Again he woke up when he was on the rock and even if he was dragged and wasn't "asleep" that's still a TKO.

Him not moving for an extended period of time after the hit and then not returning right away is proof enough. So now your reason for him not going back is the creature walked away? Haha riiiiiiight. Not like the creature was exactly hiding nor did he even walk that far away. Great work carver, your logic always impresses me (for the wrong reasons)

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Exactly. I was on comicvine earlier and read an argument stating supes would just grab hulk and fly him to the moon. First off he'd have to k.o him first (which wouldn't happen) and if he didn't k.o. him grab him and fly him fast enough that he couldn't react without hulk hitting him or breaking his hold. Its just not viable

If Hulk's base strength was actually greater (or even equal) than Superman's like a lot of misinformed people believe then that might be true but it isn't. His base strength is nowhere near Superman's level. If Superman waits around and tries slugging it out with Hulk first thereby letting Hulk get angrier then yeah, it could be a problem but even then I'm still not convinced that Superman, with his infinitely superior speed, couldn't take him to space (he doesn't have to take him all the way to the moon) and drop him off there before Hulk can do a damn thing about it. Hulk is NOT Dooomsday. His stats are inferior to DD's across the board. Especially speed. Doomsday broke out of Superman's hold in time but Hulk probably wouldn't.

Heck, Clark could probably just throw him into space.

Originally posted by -K-M-
You don't actually have to be asleep to be ko'Ed. Even once again a real life there are standing KO's and the people weren't actually asleep. Again he woke up when he was on the rock and even if he was dragged and wasn't "asleep" that's still a TKO.

Him not moving for an extended period of time after the hit and then not returning right away is proof enough. So now your reason for him not going back is the creature walked away? Haha riiiiiiight. Not like the creature was exactly hiding nor did he even walk that far away. Great work carver, your logic always impresses me (for the wrong reasons)

So him making complete sentences means he was koed? So the condition he was in when he was pinned to the rock, Zeus would have had trouble forcing him onto a rock and chaining him up again?

😐

Extended period of time? The time wasn't long between the hit and Hulk falling in the water. Let's not make assumptions here...do you have anything else besides your debatable scenes of Hulk being koed?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Neither diana or clark would choose bfr in a one on one bout imo

If Clark is fighting someone like Hulk and he starts to realize that as Hulk gerts angrier he gets stronger then I'm sure he would do whatever needs to be done in order to win and yes, BFRing is a viable option for doing that.

Originally posted by carver9
So him making complete sentences means he was koed? So the condition he was in when he was pinned to the rock, Zeus would have had trouble forcing him onto a rock and chaining him up again?

😐

Extended period of time? The time wasn't long between the hit and Hulk falling in the water. Let's not make assumptions here...do you have anything else besides your debatable scenes of Hulk being koed?

That's great, but again how did he get to the rock? How was he chained up? Another real life example is when people are concussed they can talk but they exactly are not all there. What Zeus did to hulk if you wish to continue to belief he wasn't asleep is a TKO. Same thing.

Make assumptions? those are facts. He was lifeless in the air for the duration when he went flying to where he was landing and got eaten by the sea creature. Another point of fact is he didn't return for an extended period of time. That's all fact. You made the assumption he didn't come back as the creature walked away 😬

No because I wasn't the one actually in th debate (krisblaze was) I made 3 offhand lists of recent examples and once again you broadcast your ever so dim wisdom.

Originally posted by leonidas
bfr sucks in the forum and i've long been a proponent of having it removed as an option. it happens in comics, which is cool, but it has always been poitnless in a forum match imo. ONE of the big reasons is because it DOES end discussion, hence limiting discussion regarding actual battles. in a default situation, the arena is domed anyway (or it always was before...) and so the option is never viable unless a special stip or environment is expressly stated in the OP. and when it IS viable, it's useless as it is generally indefensible by one party. so...wtf is the point? it leads to no discussion, it doesn't solve the question of who is more powerful and it generally gives one side an indefensible advantage. very productive tactic. 👆

Well, there is a very simple solution to that. If the thread starter shares your opinion then he can just say "No BFR". Problem solved. 🙂

Originally posted by Star428
If Hulk's base strength was actually greater (or even equal) than Superman's like a lot of misinformed people believe then that might be true but it isn't. His base strength is nowhere near Superman's level. If Superman waits around and tries slugging it out with Hulk first thereby letting Hulk get angrier then yeah, it could be a problem but even then I'm still not convinced that Superman, with his infinitely superior speed, couldn't take him to space (he doesn't have to take him all the way to the moon) and drop him off there before Hulk can do a damn thing about it. Hulk is NOT Dooomsday. His stats are inferior to DD's across the board. Especially speed. Doomsday broke out of Superman's hold in time but Hulk probably wouldn't.

Heck, Clark could probably just throw him into space.

Correct. however Superman often fights it out with guys below the Hulk's base level. If he went Darkseid killer at the jump he would win against nearly every Hulk that has ever been shown (Mindless, WW Hulk, Nul, and possibly War Hulk being the exception).

Originally posted by krisblaze
Haha what? If anything Im overestimating supermans ability.

But its obviously the opposite when you think, contrary to thousands of Hulk comics.., that its not possible for Superman to knock out the Hulk 😐

It truly boggles the mind. How powerful do you think the Hulk is for it to be impossible for arguably the strongest herald to not be able to knock him out? Superman swings out of his paygrade so often that the Hulk would have to range far above Skyfather for it to be an impossibility that Superman is capable of knocking him out..

If Superman starts throwing some of his stronger punches from the start of fight then it's very likely that he can KO HUlk but the longer he waits around by trying to slug-it-out with him the more likely than is no longer a viable option.

Originally posted by -K-M-
That's great, but again how did he get to the rock? How was he chained up? Another real life example is when people are concussed they can talk but they exactly are not all there. What Zeus did to hulk if you wish to continue to belief he wasn't asleep is a TKO. Same thing.

Make assumptions? those are facts. He was lifeless in the air for the duration when he went flying to where he was landing and got eaten by the sea creature. Another point of fact is he didn't return for an extended period of time. That's all fact. You made the assumption he didn't come back as the creature walked away 😬

No because I wasn't the one actually in th debate (krisblaze was) I made 3 offhand lists of recent examples and once again you broadcast your ever so dim wisdom.

Zeus chained his weakened body to a rock. Remember, he couldn't amp or heal afterwards. There's your answer.

He wasn't knocked out against Zeus though. That's my argument. His eyes wasn't closed...he was still functional. Weakened but functional.

Those are not facts because there's not proof he is koed. What other examples do you have? Do I honestly have to show you what a knock out look like?

Originally posted by Star428
If Hulk's base strength was actually greater (or even equal) than Superman's like a lot of misinformed people believe then that might be true but it isn't. His base strength is nowhere near Superman's level. If Superman waits around and tries slugging it out with Hulk first thereby letting Hulk get angrier then yeah, it could be a problem but even then I'm still not convinced that Superman, with his infinitely superior speed, couldn't take him to space (he doesn't have to take him all the way to the moon) and drop him off there before Hulk can do a damn thing about it. Hulk is NOT Dooomsday. His stats are inferior to DD's across the board. Especially speed. Doomsday broke out of Superman's hold in time but Hulk probably wouldn't.

Heck, Clark could probably just throw him into space.

No such thing as a base strength hulk

Originally posted by carver9
Because he wasn't koed. Punched in the river, hands reaching out the water, next time we see him he is talking and this was right after the fight. He was struggling to talk but he was talking.

I feel like that was more than 10 yrs ago but I will check, and it doesn't matter since it was plot involved. Strange knew Hulk could take him but Titannus used gamma absorption to win. Don't think that's what Sorrow is asking but if you want, you can use that as proof even though you'll be wrong.

So he was knocked out because he was flying through the air? What should he have done when he got punched by the monster to prove he wasn't koed?

Hulk has losses of course, no character is completely unbeatable (even the phucking Living Tribunal has been defeated before) his mind can be attacked, depending on the writer he can be weakened by absorbing his energy, he can be defeated by powerful enough energy/magic output, bfr etc but of all the high heralds his record in the h2h colomn over this past decade has been near impeccable. Beating him by punches is not the answer, I have a sneaking feeling even Thanos will find this out next month if they fight.

Bfr is a copout but it is needed for beings like Hulk/Doomsday/Thanos etc who are very difficult to defeat conventionally.

Originally posted by carver9
Zeus chained his weakened body to a rock. Remember, he couldn't amp or heal afterwards. There's your answer.

He wasn't knocked out against Zeus though. That's my argument. His eyes wasn't closed...he was still functional. Weakened but functional.

Those are not facts because there's not proof he is koed. What other examples do you have? Do I honestly have to show you what a knock out look like?

Please look up what a technical knock out is, a standing ko, concussion effects, etc. I'm tired of explaining basic things with you.

Your eyes do not have to be closed to be ko'ed. This isn't even comic book science this happens regularly in real life. Seriously.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
I asked for straight up physical losses of Hulks because of a comment Krisblaze made about it basically being lolworthy that Superman would be unable to physically defeat him

And there we go. My examples still stand. Sorry carver

I could probably come up with a ton more by digging through Hulk comics, but what's the point 🙂

Whether he's been KO'd very little or not doesn't really prove anything. It's all about who he fights and if the fights have gone on long enough.

If the Hulk fans think that him not being KO'd a lot in the recent years is proof of it being impossible to knock him out, or proof that he can't be knocked out....then yeah...what's the point in continuing any kind of debate with them? 🙂

Originally posted by -K-M-
Yes. But they were not recent. More then 10 years ago

Other recent examples would be Zeus, Titannus (context), that weird alien thing from the savage land, etc

There's also Thor.

Originally posted by Star428
Well, there is a very simple solution to that. If the thread starter shares your opinion then he can just say "No BFR". Problem solved. 🙂

yep, i agree. 👆 i just think that should be the default assumption in every forum fight.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
No such thing as a base strength hulk

😕

Huh? Are you saying that Hulk doesn't start off at a certain level of strength and then get stronger as he gets angrier? I thought that was an essential element of the character of the Hulk. I guess all the stuff I've read online by fans and writers over the years are just ignorant on the Hulk then. You're essentially saying that his strength level never varies? Am I understanding you correctly?I'm pretty sure I remember in 'Secret Wars' Reed Richards or Captain America intentionally trying to get Hulk madder so he would be able to keep holding that mountain up. Heck, Hulk himself even said he understood why they were trying to piss him off. His words were something like "You understood that the madder I get the angrier I get". I guess the Hulk himself doesn't know what he's talking about regarding his own friggin' powers, right? 🙄

Originally posted by Sin I AM
No such thing as a base strength hulk