Billion + believe in Satan. Should all schools be mandated to teach Creationism?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
[b]
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Richard Dawkins confronts a Muslim who says Islam is peaceful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Ks4pCO5O8
7 min 14 sec
(the deadly penalty of apostasy in a Muslim country)
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3:35
"I would be thoroughly in favor of education in the Bible as literature.
You can't understand English Literature without the Bible.
You can't take your allusions ...
This IS a Christian country, historically it's a Christian country,
You can't understand English History or English Literature without a knowledge of the Bible ...

By the way, I should say, the act of collective worship, I don't approve of it, but nevertheless:
The Christian religion ... is benign by comparison ...
The penalty for apostasy in the Christian religion is not death.
There is no penalty for apostasy at all in the Christian religion.
The Christian religion is comparatively benign, and we should respect it as such." -- Richard Dawkins
4:33
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Matthew 25:32-46

"Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, `Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.'"

"The penalty for apostasy in the Christian religion is not death."

My quote above says otherwise.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
There's a point at which stated distinctions do not make much of a difference.

Lucifer APPEARS differently than Satan for most, but, if they are, in fact, the [b]same being ... ?

Also, I don't recall saying GreatestIAm is evil.
Or telling him he would go to hell. [/B]

You did not have to. Your creed does.

Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, `Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.'"

Where do the separated ones go if not hell?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by red g jacks
to be fair he could just think he's deceived by satan. doesn't necessarily make him evil. plus greatest i am hasn't exactly been shy about blasting other people's religions so fair game imo.

Indeed. Reciprocity is fair play but you will note that Christians run from moral discussions because they know that their creed is quite immoral.

After all, Christianity is based on human sacrifice and using a scapegoat and you cannot start a religion with more evil concepts as that.

Care to debate?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Bentley
It makes sense for a religion to adapt itself to how humans grow and learn, their practices and their experiences. I don't remember if it's from the Bible (it does have that snarky Jesus tone to it, but I'm not 100% sure and in this forum I'll be corrected if I'm misquoting), but the famous line "sabath is made for man and not man for sabath" comes to mind.

Maybe christianity was never meant to have a "pure form"? Or it got properly altered later, afterall, the church is supposed to be a living entity and by definition it should change.

The bible says that God and Jesus do not change. Just before speaking of the new covenant. How stupid is that?

Very stupid.

You are correct in that Jesus was telling us that man created religions and Gods for himself.

We have forgotten that fact.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by red g jacks
that really depends on how much authority you place on orthodox interpretations of scripture imo. maybe reinterpreting it isn't a contradiction if the original interpretation was flawed. plus if it's jesus changing the rules then you would have to assume he has the authority to do so.

Jesus did not change the elevation in Eden, as the Jews saw Eden, to the fall that Christianity called it.

That reversal of the moral of the story of Eden changes everything in terms of how God will be perceived.

To Jews, we all come out of Eden looking good. To Christianity, we all look quite bad including a God who murdered his first two children.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
For the record, I was not and am not trying to personally attack GreatestIAm.

The problem is precisely that Gnosticism IS connected to Lucifer, because it is tightly connected to the story of Creation, God, the Garden of Eden, and knowledge and wisdom, which Gnosticism asserts Lucifer, as the snake, helped BRING to mankind.

It is simply not possible to talk about Gnosticism in a meaningful way without connecting it to Lucifer.

Hog wash.

I speak of Gnostic Christianity and seldom talk of Satan as that is just a myth to any intelligent people.

We cannot believe in a Satan as we do not believe in a hell. We are Universalists and all end in heaven.

Only those with incompetent Gods will see a God who must condemn what he has created.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by dyajeep

about Jesus...

He is the Son of God, and being the Son of God, His form/nature/being is also a God (a spirit with no flesh, bones and blood)... He is the Word that is with the Father in the beginning... then He was sent by the Father to earth to save the people from their sins... God prepared a human body for Him, a vessel, and was born by Mary... at this point, He was manifested in the flesh, fashioned as a human being in human likeness... at this point, His existence was said to be "days of His flesh", because He was a God manifested in the flesh... His body is human, but inside of it dwells the fullness of Godhead... when Jesus was crucified and died, His physical body died, but His spirit lives on... He went up to heaven as a spirit, not as a human being...

Imagine you have two children. One of your children does something wrong – say it curses, or throws a temper tantrum, or something like that. In fact, say it does this on a regular basis, and you continually forgive your child, but it never seems to change.

Now suppose one day you’ve had enough, you need to do something different. You still wish to forgive your child, but nothing has worked. Do you go to your second child, your good child, and punish it to atone for the sins of the first?

In fact, if you ever saw a parent on the street punish one of their children for the actions of their other child, how would you react? Would you support their decision, or would you be offended? Because God punished Jesus -- his good child -- for the sins of his other children.

Interestingly, some historical royal families would beat their slaves when their own children did wrong – you should not, after all, ever beat a prince. The question is: what kind of lesson does that teach the child who actually did the harm? Does it teach them to be a better person, to stop doing harm, or does it teach them both that they won't themselves be punished, and also that punishing other people is normal? I know that's not a lesson I would want to teach my children, and I suspect it's not a lesson most Christians would want to teach theirs. So why does God?

For me, that’s at least one significant reason I find Jesus’ atonement of our sin to be morally repugnant – of course, that’s assuming Jesus ever existed; that original sin actually exists; that God actually exists; etc.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by red g jacks
i started reading it but had to put it down. some of it was amusing enough but after a while i just couldn't be bothered with all the obscure religious references and got tired of googling stuff to try to figure out what the hell he was talking about. was just curious cause i thought you might have understood it better than i did since you have the world view that you have.

Our friend had a matrix type of world view taken from the older Gnostic Christian traditions.

Overdone perhaps. He was into more woo than most Gnostics Christian. The world is stranger than most think but it is not that weird.

My apotheosis showed a cosmic consciousness but it ended there. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
12:03 a.m. EST [b]January 24, 2014

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Rangoon, Burma (AP) — At least 48 Muslims were killed when Buddhist mobs attacked a village in an isolated corner of western Burma earlier this month, the United Nations said Thursday, calling on the government to carry out a swift, impartial investigation and to hold those responsible accountable ...
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/01/24/burma-buddhists-muslims-un/4813115/ [/B]

All the Abrahamic cults like to kill.

Not surprising when that cult is based on barbaric human sacrifice and riding a scapegoat into heaven.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by jaden101
Religion should only be taught in its historical context. How it shaped societal structures rather than the veracity of the religious texts. At least that aspect will have truth to it and will show the benefits and problems religion has brought throughout human civilisation.

A horribly long list.

Meanwhile, Christians end up adoring a genocidal son murdering God.

Who are the Satanists if not Christians?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
A horribly long list.

Meanwhile, Christians end up adoring a genocidal son murdering God.

Who are the Satanists if not Christians?

Regards
DL

Well, they do believe in satan, and get upset when you tell them that he (satan) doesn't really exist. 😉

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Well, they do believe in satan, and get upset when you tell them that he (satan) doesn't really exist. 😉

And Christians will move from one preacher to another if he does not sell hell hard enough.

Christians really love to hate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv_rmQuagpY&feature=player_embedded

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am
And Christians will move from one preacher to another if he does not sell hell hard enough.

Christians really love to hate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv_rmQuagpY&feature=player_embedded

Regards
DL

Yes, this world (Saha) is hell, but it is also 9 other worlds.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
12:03 a.m. EST January 24, 2014

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Rangoon, Burma (AP) — At least 48 Muslims were killed when Buddhist mobs attacked a village in an isolated corner of western Burma earlier this month, the United Nations said Thursday, calling on the government to carry out a swift, impartial investigation and to hold those responsible accountable ...
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/01/24/burma-buddhists-muslims-un/4813115/

Originally posted by Greatest I am
All the Abrahamic cults like to kill.

Not surprising when that cult is based on barbaric human sacrifice and riding a scapegoat into heaven.

Regards
DL

I can't be sure you read what I quoted correctly from what you wrote. It wasn't the "Abrahamic cult" side doing the killing here.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
The Vatican depicted Satan as female. Ever wonder why?

Don't rightly know. However, if deception is more easily accomplished by those with a mask of beauty, then it makes sense that Satan would adopt that form ...
at least, of course, if Satan's target was a man.

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Also. Tell us why God cast Satan into Eden of all places. That was really stupid of God. Right?

Regards
DL

Are we certain that Satan had actually been cast down by the time of the Garden of Eden temptation?

In the story of Job, whose events we are meant to understand took place LONG after Adam and Eve lived and died, for instance, we read the following:

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. 7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job%201&version=AKJV

MUCH later than this, though, we read the following:

17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2010&version=AKJV

Jesus in HIS day, long after Job, long after Adam and Eve, spoke of seeing Satan fall. I'm not sure good proof exists that Satan's fall occurred much earlier, and, from what I can gather, the language used in the Luke verse above parallels that used in relating PROPHETIC, i.e. FUTURE "sights". I haven't done enough Bible study to know for certain, however. The following might not be a bad place to start such an investigation:

http://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/topical-studies/when-did-jesus-see-satan-fall-like-lightning.html

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Imagine you have two children. One of your children does something wrong – say it curses, or throws a temper tantrum, or something like that. In fact, say it does this on a regular basis, and you continually forgive your child, but it never seems to change.

Now suppose one day you’ve had enough, you need to do something different. You still wish to forgive your child, but nothing has worked. Do you go to your second child, your good child, and punish it to atone for the sins of the first?

In fact, if you ever saw a parent on the street punish one of their children for the actions of their other child, how would you react? Would you support their decision, or would you be offended? Because God punished Jesus -- his good child -- for the sins of his other children.

Interestingly, some historical royal families would beat their slaves when their own children did wrong – you should not, after all, ever beat a prince. The question is: what kind of lesson does that teach the child who actually did the harm? Does it teach them to be a better person, to stop doing harm, or does it teach them both that they won't themselves be punished, and also that punishing other people is normal? I know that's not a lesson I would want to teach my children, and I suspect it's not a lesson most Christians would want to teach theirs. So why does God?

For me, that’s at least one significant reason I find Jesus’ atonement of our sin to be morally repugnant – of course, that’s assuming Jesus ever existed; that original sin actually exists; that God actually exists; etc.

Regards
DL

copy-pasted... is that all you have? 🙄

Originally posted by Greatest I am

For me, that’s at least one significant reason I find Jesus’ atonement of our sin to be morally repugnant – of course, that’s assuming Jesus ever existed; that original sin actually exists; that God actually exists; etc.

Regards
DL

If Jesus and God do not exist, why do you spend so much time talking about things that do not exist?

Are you mentally stupid?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
If Jesus and God do not exist, why do you spend so much time talking about things that do not exist?

Are you mentally stupid?

👆

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
If Jesus and God do not exist, why do you spend so much time talking about things that do not exist?

Are you mentally stupid?

Isn't this entire forum pretty much dedicated to discussing hypothetical battles between fictional characters....

Originally posted by ares834
Isn't this entire forum pretty much dedicated to discussing hypothetical battles between fictional characters....

Pretty sure billions of people would disagree that characters in movies and comics books are different then religion and God.

Ur comeback is an abysmal failure.