Darth Bane vs Shaak Ti

Originally posted by Master_Galen
OP states no nexus, so he would not be able to draw on anything to increase his strength.

What about speed though, what has Ti done that compares to Bane?

We were talking about an example in the book.

Ti beating hordes of magnaguards, and beating Marek back (yes she was on a nexus), are more impressive feats than Bane who has only beaten Sirak (in a facility designed to focus DS energies of Korriban).

She is also faster (dodging omnidirectional blasterfire > dodging rain drops), and more skilled as per her showing with Marek who defeated (Kazdan Paratus/Rahm Kota) vs. Sirak who is featless.

Possibly more powerful in the force, they might be close in that area though. Bane's lightning isn't going to bother her barrier or tutaminus, and he isn't powerful enough to dominate her with TK

Originally posted by Selenial
Oh, he proved that there was a Nexus.

Also, force suppressing cocktails? Lol. Nox managed to kill a lord under the effect of these when she was still an acolyte, they can't be that good.

And? It's not a competition. All I'm saying is that the drugs off-set any supposed amp he was getting, making the feat valid. It's not as if Bane failed while under the effects, it just impeded his force use.

You'd have to have actual evidence for your claim though, and yeah obviously the drugs had no effect due to the energies Bane was able to feed off of.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And? It's not a competition. All I'm saying is that the drugs off-set any supposed amp he was getting, making the feat valid. It's not as if Bane [b]failed while under the effects, it just impeded his force use. [/B]

I know, all I'm saying is that you said there was no Nexus. He proved there was, you just didn't see because you had him on ignore.

Originally posted by Selenial
I know, all I'm saying is that you said there was no Nexus. He proved there was, you just didn't see because you had him on ignore.

That isn't what I said. I said no amp was mentioned. And none is. While Bane notes his ability to use the force is diminished.

It doesn't need to be he is still using the force in an area of a high concentration of dark side energies. We've been through this all before, Bane can't replicate that feat or any of his other ones without a nexus present.

Carthage Felucia is not a nexus it is simply teeming with life which Shaak Ti could control.

Felucia is a Dark Side Nexus, lol.

After her death yes.

Originally posted by carthage
He was also amped by the darkside energies of the stone prison when he ripped the durasteel door off its doors.

-Dynasty of Evil

Wait, are you fvcking kidding me? The Stone Prison too!?

Jesus, Bane sucks. He literally has no off-nexus feats now.

After her death, yes.

Nah.

The dark side was strong on Felucia... And Shaak Ti was a beacon in that darkness.

-TFU Comic

Ah yes you are correct, people love to ignore that fact when 'debating' Shaak Ti however, dismissing her feats as if they are on a Light Side nexus.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Wait, are you fvcking kidding me? The Stone Prison too!?

Jesus, Bane sucks. He literally has no off-nexus feats now.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Except it's pretty much stated that Bane's circumstance in the Stone prison was disadvantageous.

Except that unless you have proof that Bane's ability to draw on the force was compromised by drugs you have no case. Its no coincidence Bane needs a nexus for 95% of his feats. Bane was amped for all of his feats in that area as well

Originally posted by AncientPower
Ah yes you are correct, people love to ignore that fact when 'debating' Shaak Ti however, dismissing her feats as if they are on a Light Side nexus.

I can't speak for anyone else's conversations with you, but I brought up the fact that she was amped as well. It can't and shouldn't be escaped, and only makes Galen look better he was able to defeat her. She is still more skilled than Bane even without her showing on Felucia.

@Seleniel @Newguy1

"The remaining five guards scrambled to their feet, grabbing for their weapons. Bane lashed out with the Force. The fury of his attack was muted by the last lingering effects of the drugs in his system, but it was still strong enough to knock them all to the floor and send the table flying into the wall, where it cracked in half."

"Whatever the explanation, Bane knew one thing for certain: He didn't want to face Zannah right now. Not while he was still recovering from the toxins Serra had used to render him helpless, and certainly not without his lightsaber."

"The last dregs of the chemicals would simply have to break down naturally over time. Until then he would be at less than full strength. A fraction slower in thoughts and actions, less adept at wielding the power of the Force. And he was still without his lightsaber."

These quotes confirm:
1. Bane's ability with the force was diminished to an extent
2. Bane was not at full strength.

If Bane was beneath his full strength, then the nexus argument is particularly invalid here because Bane's disadvantages more than compensate for it.

but it was still strong enough to knock them all to the floor and send

Obviously the drugs didn't have that big effect to counteract a nexus amp seeing as he still was able to draw on the energy to blow open a door, run multi levels of the prison, duel Darth Zannah, etc. And your last argument is speculative, seeing as he was still relying on the energies to begin with for feats that he couldn't otherwise achieve. Not to mention the fact that Bane from his inception needs nexuses to accomplish just about anything

1. Bane's ability with the force was diminished to an extent

But still not diminished enough to perform the aforementioned feats. Obviously they hindered him somewhat, but the nexus more then made up for it.

If Bane was beneath his full strength, then the nexus argument is particularly invalid here because Bane's disadvantages more than compensate for it.

The first part of this final statement is your opinion solely. Bane "At full strength" off nexus has only broken a guys spine, broken tents, broken boxes, and shattered peoples spines. Bane's "disadvantages" were minor in comparison to the nexus that allowed him to achieve the aforementioned feats.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
The dark side was strong on Felucia... And Shaak Ti was a beacon in that darkness.

[B]-TFU Comic [/B]

It's a nice effort, really, but those quotes really don't prove your point. The fact that the power of his attack was offset by the drugs means that they were hindering him, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it counterbalances the nexus--it just means it would have been stronger were he not drugged. Likewise, the nexus would give him no advantage over Zannah, whilst the drugs still hinder him. Does this mean that Bane was still operating above-average despite the effects of the toxins? Not necessarily, but the fact of the matter is that the evidence doesn't rule out the possibility either.

I'm honestly fairly disappointed at this revelation. Now practically all of Bane's notable feats are impossible to critically analyze due to multiple conditions that may impede or improve upon his normal capabilities to an unknown degree. I can't really say for sure that I know where to rank him now.

With regards to skill Ti really should take this, Bane hasn't beat anyone apart from Sirak without orbalisks or a nexus at his aid (even fighting Sirak he was still amped). Obviously, no one is going/should dispute Marek is more skilled than Sirak- and while both being nexus feats, Marek would pose a greater challenge than a mere trainee.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
It's a nice effort, really, but those quotes really don't prove your point. The fact that the power of his attack was offset by the drugs means that they were hindering him, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it counterbalances the nexus--it just means it would have been stronger were he not drugged. Likewise, the nexus would give him no advantage over Zannah, whilst the drugs still hinder him. Does this mean that Bane was still operating above-average despite the effects of the toxins? Not necessarily, but the fact of the matter is that the evidence doesn't rule out the possibility either.

I'm honestly fairly disappointed at this revelation. Now practically all of Bane's notable feats are impossible to critically analyze due to multiple conditions that may impede or improve upon his normal capabilities to an unknown degree. I can't really say for sure that I know where to rank him now.

👆

The text clearly and explicitly states that Bane is at less than his full strength. If he's at less than his full strength, he's not being amped beyond his full strength.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
The text clearly and explicitly states that Bane is at less than his full strength. If he's at less than his full strength, he's not being amped beyond his full strength.

Which is more then made up for by the latent energies of the prison, which you conveniently ignore. Also his feats off nexus i,e on Ambria/Ruusan don't match his showings in the prison as well, he was amped and the drugs only had minor issues which is all that the quotes you showed proved.

The force round of the fight can probably be an even split. Telekinetically the two are pretty close, Bane's lightning isn't adding anything to his advantages.

Skill wise I think as mentioned Ti takes sabers.