Darth Bane vs Shaak Ti

I already addressed this.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
It's a nice effort, really, but those quotes really don't prove your point. The fact that the power of his attack was offset by the drugs means that they were hindering him, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it counterbalances the nexus--it just means it would have been stronger were he not drugged. Likewise, the nexus would give him no advantage over Zannah, whilst the drugs still hinder him. Does this mean that Bane was still operating above-average despite the effects of the toxins? Not necessarily, but the fact of the matter is that the evidence doesn't rule out the possibility either.

I'm honestly fairly disappointed at this revelation. Now practically all of Bane's notable feats are impossible to critically analyze due to multiple conditions that may impede or improve upon his normal capabilities to an unknown degree. I can't really say for sure that I know where to rank him now.

So are we actually going to discuss who wins in a duel/all out match? Or are we going to keep discussing the tired nexus debate which doesn't favor Bane?

That same issue always kills any discussion in any assessment of Bane's skill, and it makes a thread nearly impossible to have.

Most controversial debates wind up dominating threads with included characters, sadly. That said, it's those same questions that are debated that the thread ultimately boils down to, so it's really inevitable.

It shouldn't be controversial when you weigh their feats and showings, it truly comes down to who has the superior showings. I'd like to believe that given the circumstances known to all posters due to constant conversation about Bane/associated characters- that most people would be aware of the nature of his showings.

With Ti there are quite a lot of factors for her own showings as well, it all boils down to who has the superior ones. I believe Ti does at least.

To be honest, you're right; Ti is another one that's hard to gauge for the same reason. The whole mumbo jumbo with Felucia is really a huge contradictory mess, after all.

Well simply weighing both feats Galen at that point is a better duelist than Sirak or Kas'im, she has the accolades which Kas'im lacks, she's faster and at least comparably powerful to Bane. There isn't much Bane can do with telekinesis if she can directly TK Starkiller (who is more powerful than Bane).

I'd give her a slight majority if nothing more.

Originally posted by ILS
The novel contradicts this, sort of. The dark wasn't strong with Felucia by the time Galen fought Ti since she had tilted it more towards the light, which apparently weakened Galen to some degree.

Do you still not understand what this means? Either way Shaak Ti has one of the best alter environment feats in the lore and she was doing this passively whilst fighting him.

Oh and yes Starkiller could not amp himself with the Dark Side, that doesn't make her feats any less impressive, infact her feat is more impressive because she was passively suppressing the Dark Side in the planet.

For sixteen years she used Alter Environment to keep the planet from becoming a Dark Side nexus, including using her Togruta abilities to keep the Felucian Shamans in the Light as well.

Honestly how people can use this as some form of supporting logic to call what she did a nexus amp is frankly fallacious.

All of this whilst cunningly employing Dun Moch to keep him off balance and using her Force Augmentation to overwhelm him in both strength and speed.

So she was actively using Alter Environment, passively, to suppress the dark side on Felucia?

Source bro?

What exactly do you mean by her "Togruta abilities" Ancient?

Shaak Ti combines Plant Surge and Consular Sato in a variation of Alter Environment against Marek in the comic book of TFU, not to mention this:

"The world of Felucia is tied intimately to the Living Force, and as such the flora and fauna, including the Felucian Shamans can be influenced by agents strong in the Force, Light or Dark." - TFU CG

Carthage, Togrutans have a natural connection to plant life.

I think Ti's natural ability to commune with the wildlife may have contributed more to her having sway over the population instead of actively subjecting it to her rule, which is what people have been arguing recently. The Felucians, sarlacc and environment in general obviously just.. liked.. Shaak Ti and her influence, for a lack of a better word. She wasn't mind controlling them or anything.

So yeah, Ti would be benefiting from the light-side environment.

Fun facts:

Rahm Kota is a Juyo master.

Maris Brood is a Jar-kai/Niman master.

Kazdan Paratus is a Shien master.

Shaak Ti is a Battle Meditation practitioner.

All from the The Force Unleashed Campaign Guide.

I didn't know Kazdan even used lightsaber forms lol.

ILS the issue I have is that everyone and their grandmother calls Felucia a Force Nexus, it isn't, it is just strongly influenced by the Living Force. I'll give an e-cookiee to anyone who finds a statement calling Felucia a nexus.

Well, not a nexus, just a planet strong in the Force. And it's ever so slight dips toward either light or dark seem to have a slight effect on Force Users. Maybe not much though.

Nexus is turning into a sort of blanket term for anywhere strong in the Force.

Yet repeatedly this is used as an excuse to dismiss Ti's kinetite feat and her performance against Galen Marek.

I am not accusing you of this but people in general.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I already addressed this.

No you didn't. You say it doesn't necessarily counterbalance the nexus, but it clearly does for the reasons Dmb said. The text literally says he's at less than full strength. If he's at less than full strength, then he's not operating above his full strength (duh). Nothing you said addresses that. The text explicitly says that you are wrong.

Furthermore, Bane notes that he's weaker and less adept even after purging most of the drugs. Which means that it would have affected him far more beforehand during his escape whilst he's still influenced by the full effects, when these feats take place.

Why are people bringing up this whole nexus thing to begin with? OP clearly says no nexus/amp feats.

Why are nexuses ever brought up? To shit on Bane, obviously. We're arguing about whether it invalidates one of his feats. It doesn't, because he's explicitly weaker than normal in the scene as directly stated in the novel.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Why are people bringing up this whole nexus thing to begin with? OP clearly says no nexus/amp feats.

Because people are trying to use said nexus/amp feats as if they weren't such.