Originally posted by DarthAnt66
"Yet even though you are a mere apprentice, your potential is unlimited - and your progress...amazing. In all my years, I have never seen one who has mastered the initial training so quickly. You done in weeks what many cannot do in years."
―Zhar Lestin (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)
😮
Originally posted by AncientPower
Oh and Sidious is stated to have the greatest collection ever. Logical as the Order of the Sith Lords had a thousand years of uninterrupted gathering of knowledge.
a) It was interrupted and a good portion of it was lost when one of the RoT Sith turned to the Lightside and burnt their library (or something).
b) Vader didn't have unrestricted access to it. Sidious drip-fed him darkside knowledge specifically to keep him from becoming too powerful.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You do realize, "once" can refer to when Revan took the mantle of Dark Lord?
No. Since Kun "once" being the greatest Sith Lord would put him above Vitiate. Who Revan was laughably below as Darth Revan.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Freedon Nadd's abilities were not continued because he refused to use his cult as anything more than a stepping stone to return physically. Exar Kun took this information and unsurprisingly failed to share his knowledge to. Regardless Kun is stated to have full knowledge in JA Sourcebook.
Exar Kun cannot have full knowledge of the dark arts because this implies "all-knowing" which is not realistic. He is likely to have tremendous knowledge of the dark arts. However, depth of knowledge cannot be statistically ranked because individuals continue to learn throughout their lives.
In addition, Sith of the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire further expanded upon the knowledge of the ancients after the Great Hyperspace War independently from other factions and Sith who were not part of them. Therefore, it is unlikely that Exar Kun learned everything that they had learned.
Originally posted by AncientPower
I would be careful in dismissing sources so readily, age does not mean that it warrants dismissa. A statement in a sourcebook is only considered invalid if directly retconned by newer works.
Retcons can be direct or indirect, they don't have to be strictly direct.
Latest sources do not imply that Exar Kun was stronger then Emperor Vitiate while co-existing with him in an era. They strongly imply that Emperor Vitiate was born supremely powerful in the Force and continued to be so throughout galactic history. The word "supremely" means "greatest."
Why would authors bother with directly comparing Emperor Vitiate and Exar Kun when they have strongly implied in numerous ways that Emperor Vitiate was supremely powerful throughout galactic history?
Originally posted by AncientPower
The Dread Masters mastered the Phobis Devices collectively at will of the Emperor and became far more powerful. I do not believe their mastery of sorcery equates to immense knowledge on level of the Emperor or Exar Kun. The Phobis Devices created a hivemind among the six of them and they became collectively very powerful.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Oh and Sidious is stated to have the greatest collection ever. Logical as the Order of the Sith Lords had a thousand years of uninterrupted gathering of knowledge.
I believe that reconstituted ancient Sith Empire was in the best position to acquire full knowledge of ancient Sith lore and expand on it.
Darth Sidious may have one of the largest collection of Sith lore ever but unlikely to have the largest due to actions of Darth Gravid.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Exar Kun has displayed feats of immense magnitude such as stunning thousands, draining thousands and has one of the most impressive sorcery resumes of all time.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Exar Kun is stated essentially to be the most powerful Force User in either Jedi or Sith orders by this time. Vitiate is the one whom surpasses him eventually.
Originally posted by AncientPower
He is also stated to be unparalleled in lightsaber combat, easily dispatching a duelist as formidable and experienced as Vodo multiple times.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Kun has immense accolades with feats to match and proved his worth as a Sith Lord against post-DE Luke Skywalker despite being weak at said time.
Honestly, Luke Skywalker isn't invincible. People tend to subscribe no-limits fallacy to him which I have always found annoying. Put Luke Skywalker in a debate and fans hype him for victory without ever considering the possibility of his defeat.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
That was very insightful. S_W_LeGenD, you reaffirm my position on TOR and its defenders with each post.Well done. 👆
Exar Kun is a TOR era character, did you notice my constructive criticism of the hype surrounding him? Or you only focused on my constructive criticism of the hype surrounding PT/OT related subjects?
I strongly advice people to thoroughly explore TOR era sources and materials and formulate an informed opinion accordingly. None of what I have stated so far is indication of my bias, rather the information at hand upon which my arguments rest.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am not sure if this is implied in negative sense or positive sense.
excellent
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am assuming the negative by default in your case.
uhuh
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Exar Kun is a TOR era character, did you notice my constructive criticism of the hype surrounding him? Or you only focused on my constructive criticism of the hype surrounding PT/OT related subjects?I strongly advice people to thoroughly explore TOR era sources and materials and formulate an informed opinion accordingly. None of what I have stated so far is indication of my bias, rather the information at hand upon which my arguments rest.
To be fair, you've been called out on it not only by your opponents, but also erstwhile allies {Neph, Ant, etc.}.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Of Force knowledge in general, not just specifically Sith lore or knowledge pertaining to the dark side.
With Revan who have force knowledge XD Give Revan hiz empire againzt Kun empire Revan force knowledge outclazz the knowledge than Kun can obtain through the ancient zith zpiritz...
Revan Knowledge ztill a bit zuperiro to Zidiouz Knowledge if you eraze pozt Revan death era from Zidiouz memory...
"
Honestly, Luke Skywalker isn't invincible. People tend to subscribe no-limits fallacy to him which I have always found annoying. Put Luke Skywalker in a debate and fans hype him for victory without ever considering the possibility of his defeat."
Fan Zervice for the original trilogy Fan. That'z it !
Originally posted by The_Tempest
To be fair, you've been called out on it not only by your opponents, but also erstwhile allies {Neph, Ant, etc.}.
As for the bias, every fan is biased in some way including you. However, I don't let my bias cloud my judgment in most cases. It is my "out-of-the-box" thinking that can sometimes surprise people but reactions are often extreme which should not be the case for FICTION. Point of contention mostly arises with how we all interpret and address some inconsistencies within the lore.
I am OK with introduction of characters to the mythos that can be potentially stronger then Luke Skywalker and Darth Sidious irrespective of timeline, and I am also OK with Star Wars as a constantly evolving lore. And I do not hesitate at expressing my POV or present an well-reasoned argument which may challenge a traditional belief or revelation. However, some fans find it difficult to come to terms with rapid changes within the lore and stick to traditional revelations which becomes unhealthy at some point during debates because they don't show flexibility.
I have read your arguments and they are often very well-reasoned. You and I may find a common ground on may aspects of the lore. However, you never permitted our cyber-relationship to flourish and reacted in extreme manner.
Nonetheless, we all our guilty of being biased, if this was your intention to pinpoint.
Exar Kun is a TOR era character, did you notice my constructive criticism of the hype surrounding him? Or you only focused on my constructive criticism of the hype surrounding PT/OT related subjects?
No, Exar Kun is a KOTOR-era character, and you don't generally think any more highly of them than the PT for the most part.
Originally posted by The Merchant
Also Darth Gravid did destroy a bunch of Lore but eventually Plaguies or Palpatine was able to recover all of it and even more knowledge from a million worlds.
Darth Sidious had been much more successful in reacquiring ancient knowledge then his Master though. I doubt that he got access to everything. Loss of Malachor V and some other devastating events made sure that lot of ancient knowledge wouldn't survive.
Also, this figure is from?