Lord Scourge and Darth Nyriss Vs Mace Windu and Quinlan Vos

Started by S_W_LeGenD5 pages

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
The benefits attributed to her being wound were far greater:

- Faster Learning ability

- Mimicking a lightsaber style to near mastery

- Strength with each person she killed

- Power Via Force bonds with 6 force sensitives.


1. What she learned during her time as a Wound is ingrained in her during her visit to Dromund Kaas.

2. Same as above.

3. This is how she progressed from being a normal human to a powerful Force-user till she healed.

4. Their was no need for her to formulate a bond with another Force-sensitive to maintain her strength after she healed.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
The lack of the first two would greatly influence her skills and overall fighting ability. the lack of the second two points, would like-wise greatly affect her raw power.

See above.

By the time she confronted Darth Nyriss, she was a powerful Jedi and an immensely skilled duelist.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Yeah, true. but what is your point? Traya was stronger, but Meetra beat her...and?

Meetra Surik was never intended to be super-strong like Revan. She had her prime moments but it isn't implied anywhere that she will manage to defeat every Sith Lord in every setting because she defeated Darth Traya on Malachor V.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Elaborate on what you're asking.

How exactly is (healed) Meetra Surik weaker then (Wound) Meetra Surik? Any official information?

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
what does Revan have to do with this? that was after the events of the Revan novel.

Revan have a lot to do with this. The sheer disparity between his power and that of Meetra Surik is what led some fans to speculate about Meetra Surik being a weaksauce after she healed. She isn't and the novel explicitly makes this clear.

Revan is far stronger then Meetra Surik (and majority of the Jedi and Sith in the mythos). He shouldn't be used as a benchmark to judge Darth Nyriss and Meetra Surik.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Doubtful, Nyriss is nowhere near The Exile from Kotor 2. and i still hold firm to that belief. Also what you mean "Don't try to use Revan as a benchmark to Judge Nyriss"? i didn't imply that she sucked because of Revan

And what makes you think that Darth Nyriss doesn't holds a candle to The Exile of KoTOR 2?

The Exile was never about being a juggernaut of competence and destruction. This story is about redemption of an exiled Jedi who emerged as a hero under extraordinary circumstances, her condition facilitated her success and The Force was with her or something. This is what I gather from the story of KoTOR 2.

Revan, on the other hand, have always been hyped as a super-strong individual.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I disagree, defeating a very weak Meetra who had lost all of the benefits of being a wound, is not impressive. defeating a sith lord who was far from his peak, is impressive, but not that much. Nyriss is strong, but Meetra's defeat is circumstantial.

Darth Nyriss wasn't some chump. She became a member of a Dark Council on merit and lasted 20 years in that position due to her cunning and power. If she and some Dark Council members are stronger then Meetra Surik/The Exile, this isn't a big deal and neither this implies that the referred Jedi is not among the best of the Order. Dark Council members are likely to be stronger then majority of the Jedi and Sith on average.

Originally posted by Selenial
While furious at her betrayal, on a Dark Side Nexus and closer to death than anyone has ever seen.

Sure, Vos would die, but it wouldn't be a stomp.


I hold Meetra Surik in high regard, never thought less of her abilities. But I don't have an issue about her inferiority to a Dark Council member. And come on, Meetra Surik wasn't closer to death at this point.

My point is that Meetra Surik and Lord Scourge couldn't tackle Darth Nyriss with their combined effort and didn't manage to posit much of a challenge to her either. Quinlan Vos is relatively lesser threat. This is a stomp indeed.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU CONTRADICTING YOURSELF. CLEARLY TOR IS JUST BETTERER THAN THE PT IN ALL WAYS NOT JUST WAR IM SURE TOR SECRECY > PT SECRECY SO WHY ARE YOU SAYING THESE COOL THINGS ABOUT MACE WINDU

😂

I never considered this to be the case. While I find TOR era more fascinating (thanks to the masterpiece KoTOR I), I do not overlook the merits of other eras.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
IIRC LeGenD had Dooku and Mace ranked below Ven Zallow. 😬

*Thinks for a moment*

LeGenD, do you have Zallow>Nyriss?


Ven Zallow is among the finest of the Jedi, this is what I would say at the moment. Ranking him can be tricky due to limited information but he is SOLID based on what I have learned about him from TOR sources and my play-through of the Jedi Knight story. Unfortunately, he looks less impressive in the trailer due to inadequate exploration or expansion of the lore at the time of its release. So don't let the trailer fool you.

Originally posted by Bane Dies Again
Only Dooku. He has Mace way above the Count.

You "do" pay attention sometimes. Good.

He is SOLID based on what I have learned about him from TOR sources and my play-through of the Jedi Knight story.

What mention does he have in the Jedi Knight story?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
What mention does he have in the Jedi Knight story?

Ven Zallow was likely the strongest and most skilled Jedi stationed inside the Jedi Temple at the time of the raid, if assessment of Darth Malgus is to be believed. Some other great warriors were also inside the Jedi Temple during this time such as Jedi Master Usma and Bengel Morr, the latter survived though. This disclosure makes Ven Zallow even more impressive then he originally seemed to be.

C'mon, LeGenD, we all know that PT characters are puny next to TOR characters. You don't have to be polite.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Ven Zallow was likely the strongest and most skilled Jedi stationed inside the Jedi Temple at the time of the raid, if assessment of Darth Malgus is to be believed. Some other great warriors were also inside the Jedi Temple during this time such as Jedi Master Usma and Bengel Morr, the latter survived though. This disclosure makes Ven Zallow even more impressive then he originally seemed to be.

How does Ven fare against fighters such as Kyle Katarn and Plo Koon in your opinion?

1. What she learned during her time as a Wound is ingrained in her during her visit to Dromund Kaas.

2. Same as above.

3. This is how she progressed from being a normal human to a powerful Force-user till she healed.

👆

4. Their was no need for her to formulate a bond with another Force-sensitive to maintain her strength after she healed.

Not to mention that those bonds are still present.

By the time she confronted Darth Nyriss, she was a powerful Jedi and an skilled duelist.

👆

On top of that, it's not like she was completely overran--The novel stated she was holding her own.

Meetra Surik was never intended to be super-strong like Revan.

👆

Surik was definitely intended to be super-strong like Revan. Solo'ing Malachor plus beating Traya and getting called her greatest student makes that abundantly clear.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Surik was definitely intended to be super-strong like Revan. Solo'ing Malachor plus beating Traya and getting called her greatest student makes that abundantly clear.

Powerful? Yes.

Super-strong? No.

KoTOR II hyped Revan much more then Meetra Surik actually. The latter earned the accolade of being the best student in the end. Also, one of the Jedi Masters considered The Exile as being average.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

KoTOR II hyped Revan much more then Meetra Surik actually. The latter earned the accolade of being the best student in the end. Also, one of the Jedi Masters considered The Exile as being average.

And that Master is Vrook Lamar, a man who lowballs the hell out of Revan and Meetra on a daily basis 😬

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Powerful? Yes.

Super-strong? No.

KoTOR II hyped Revan much more then Meetra Surik actually. The latter earned the accolade of being the best student in the end. Also, one of the Jedi Masters considered The Exile as being average.

Meetra fought through an entire academy of Sith capable of drawing power from her, getting more powerful the more powerful she was, and defeated Darth Sion about 6 times in a row and Darth Traya twice in a row. On Malachor V, one of the greatest darkside nexus' of all time, with hyper-gravity from the mass shadow generator. After she'd crash landed on the planet and fought through masses of Storm beasts.

Plus she was growing more powerful from every person she killed and from her force bonds as well as instantly learning several advanced techniques and almost instantly mastering lightsaber forms that usually take years to grasp.

She was super strong.

Vrook was an *******. Kavar said she was talented.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
And that Master is Vrook Lamar, a man who lowballs the hell out of Revan and Meetra on a daily basis 😬

Vrook Lamar to Revan: "The Force flows through you like no student we have ever seen."

Fated lacks knowledge on KotOR. His confusion is to be expected.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Meetra fought through an entire academy of Sith capable of drawing power from her, getting more powerful the more powerful she was, and defeated Darth Sion about 6 times in a row and Darth Traya twice in a row. On Malachor V, one of the greatest darkside nexus' of all time, with hyper-gravity from the mass shadow generator. After she'd crash landed on the planet and fought through masses of Storm beasts.

Plus she was growing more powerful from every person she killed and from her force bonds as well as instantly learning several advanced techniques and almost instantly mastering lightsaber forms that usually take years to grasp.

She was super strong.


The Exile apparently benefitted from Wound condition on Malachor V. Its environment wouldn't have influenced her in the manner as it would a normal Force-user, and she was immune to effects of Force Drain. Apart from this, she was an immensely skilled duelist so it doesn't surprise me that she kicked so many butts during her raid on the Sith fortress.

Darth Sion wasn't an exceptional warrior, he benefitted from his immortality which would allow him to revive himself again and again till his opponent would perish. Against The Exile, he faltered because he developed feelings for her and the Jedi convinced him to give-up.

Darth Traya, a very powerful Force-user, somehow underperformed on Malachor V or deliberately avoided killing The Exile. She lost her only remaining hand in the first bout which would have weakened her, and then used her powers to perform telekinetic lightsaber dueling which may have been a tedious task and The Exile outdueled her in this bout as well. I also recall that The Exile shared a special bond with Darth Traya which ended during this confrontation. Therefore, Meetra Surik may have put additional strain on Darth Traya by drawing on her power, using this bond to her advantage.

The events of Malachor V indicate that Meetra Surik had became powerful and an immensely skilled duelist.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vrook was an *******. Kavar said she was talented.

😂

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The Exile apparently benefitted from Wound condition on Malachor V. Its environment wouldn't have influenced her in the manner as it would a normal Force-user, and she was immune to effects of Force Drain. Apart from this, she was an immensely skilled duelist so it doesn't surprise me that she kicked so many butts during her raid on the Sith fortress.

Darth Sion wasn't an exceptional warrior, he benefitted from his immortality which would allow him to revive himself again and again till his opponent would perish. Against The Exile, he faltered because he developed feelings for her and the Jedi convinced him to give-up.

Darth Traya, a very powerful Force-user, somehow underperformed on Malachor V or deliberately avoided killing The Exile. She lost her only remaining hand in the first bout which would have weakened her, and then used her powers to perform telekinetic lightsaber dueling which may have been a tedious task and The Exile outdueled her in this bout as well.

The events of Malachor V indicate that Meetra Surik had became powerful and an immensely skilled duelist.

😂

The Revan novel confirms that Meetra was assaulted mentally and physically by the effects of Malachor. She was even gasping for air the whole time because of the gravity.

All the stuff you just said doesn't undermine her feats. That she was an immensely powerful and skilled fighter is the same as being super strong. And Traya doesn't have to have underperformed, the Exile was just better than her. Sion was an exceptional fighter (compared to ordinary Sith) and the Exile beat him over and over again on a powerful nexus after fighting through a horde of Sith.

She was super strong.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
And that Master is Vrook Lamar, a man who lowballs the hell out of Revan and Meetra on a daily basis 😬

This. Your knowledge on Kotor 2 continues to amaze me LeGenD.

For someone who has never, ever, played the game, I find it hilarious you seek to lecture people who are currently on there 30-something'th play through.

Surik was literally a master of every form of Lightsaber Combat. And you know what, Vrook might have called her Average, but:

"It's not possible... you... you must be stopped!"
"Your.. power, is undeniable"

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Darth Sion wasn't an exceptional warrior, he benefitted from his immortality which would allow him to revive himself again and again till his opponent would perish. Against The Exile, he faltered because he developed feelings for her and the Jedi convinced him to give-up.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong, wrong wrong wrong wrong.

He outdueled a Jedi Master who was "A master of Lightsaber combat" and force crushed her like an absolute boss... He wasn't a mook.

Vrook called her unremarkable before the Mandalorian war. In the game she grew far, far greater than she'd ever been as an ordinary Jedi because of her unique powers.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The Revan novel confirms that Meetra was assaulted mentally and physically by the effects of Malachor. She was even gasping for air the whole time because of the gravity.

Malachor V would have stressed others too, not just her.

Originally posted by Nephthys
All the stuff you just said doesn't undermine her feats. That she was an immensely powerful and skilled fighter is the same as being super strong. And Traya doesn't have to have underperformed, the Exile was just better than her. Sion was an exceptional fighter (compared to ordinary Sith) and the Exile beat him over and over again on a powerful nexus after fighting through a horde of Sith.

She was super strong.


I am not undermining her feats, simply refuting the notion that she was super-strong. She was powerful, not super-strong like Revan.

Originally posted by Selenial
This. Your knowledge on Kotor 2 continues to amaze me LeGenD.

For someone who has never, ever, played the game, I find it hilarious you seek to lecture people who are currently on there 30-something'th play through.

Surik was literally a master of every form of Lightsaber Combat. And you know what, Vrook might have called her Average, but:

"It's not possible... you... you must be stopped!"
"Your.. power, is undeniable"


In case, you missed:

Vrook Lamar to Revan: "The Force flows through you like no student we have ever seen."

Surik's dueling skills are not in dispute, I have always admired her martial prowess. Her martial abilities may have been a major factor in her victory on Malachor V.