I can't wait to we get to ranking Bane in that tier thread, haha he loses though. Vader is faster, vastly more skilled, and physically stronger. Also ILS in order to spare more TLDR posts, do you think we should just throw Tiin, Bulq, Malgus, Katarn as 7.5 tier or something? But where would that leave Vos and others?
Originally posted by ILS
Well that's already where I sort of have Bulq, Malgus, Katarn ect. They're between 7.5-7.9, pretty much.
I'm not sure why Tiin would exactly be tier 8, Plo, Kolar, Koon, Fisto, I can understand given their quantifiable feats. But Tiin? Oh well I don't think we'll reach a resolution on that one. I am not convinced based on a sparring match that he'd best any of them though. But oh well its not that big of a deal
You did well explaining it, and there is some merit in the analysis of Vos's sparring match versus Tinn's. But the thing I just don't buy is that he'd take either in a duel as he simply lacks the feats to compete. Is he within their tier ye-, but there is nothing conclusively showing that he'd do anything more than put up a fight. It would be different if Tiin had a couple of showings apart from destroying Super battle droids, as ironically most other PT duelists have at least one actual fight under their belt. Does he have superior accolades to either guy, I guess if you approach it from that vantage point he does. But Malgus and Katarn both have a linear progression of skill and actual dueling feats, as opposed to just a reputation and limited inferences we can make.
As it stands Bulq, Jinn?, Malgus, Mundi, Katarn, and others should be like the bare minimum for tier 8. Savage can probably be moved up imo to mid tier 8
I think Tiin has proven he has enough practical fighting ability to fully transfer his skill into a real duel, if that's where you're finding issue. I mean sure, Mace wasn't trying to kill him in the spar and visa versa, but Tiin is an experienced war general, and he's fought real opponents. I think he can safely transfer his skill into a real fight. The fact Mace selected him to fight Palpatine alone proves this.
I already told you how I feel about placing Malgus ect in the same tier as Maul and Kenobi for sabers, just for the sake of how the guide works opposed to how far apart they are in quality. Savage's actual lightsaber skill isn't really near tier 8, because of his technique being focused highly on his superior strength. In overall I remember placing him at about tier 7, because there his strength factors in, but in sheer skill he'd be a 5 or 6 IMO.
Originally posted by Angelalex242
Vader has a more advanced, personalized style. Bane uses Djem So pretty exclusively, and since that's Vader's backbone style, he knows how to deal with it. But Vader also has some Makashi, Soresu, and Ataru blended in to his style that he designed to compensate for the suit.
Bane mixes in some elements of Soresu and Juyo as well.
Tiin's tactical experiences in a war never transferred and or in any tangible way effected his ability to duel with Mace. Fighting droids and managing the battlefield are incomparable feats to lack of showings as a duelist, and who are these "Real opponents" he's fought? As for accolades yeah but again I never disputed those to begin with. If he has a proven fighting ability it has never been displayed against force sensitives, whereas, Malgus, Tiin, Savage, Katarn, and Bulq (who pressed Windu just as hard if not harder) have all been in actual combat against trained force sensitives. We would have to draw heavily on inferences to suggest he'd win/fight well against prime Windu, easily best Zallow, Satele, Leneer, (be at least a moderate risk for Caedus), and last as long as Malgus did in a strike team in order to put him at tier 8. This is something that requires a bit more of a leap for me.
Either way Savage has proven dueling feats which Tiin lacks, it just seems like he is a holdover due to his accolades to me at least.
I already told you how I feel about placing Malgus ect in the same tier as Maul and Kenobi for sabers, just for the sake of how the guide works opposed to how far apart they are in quality. Savage's actual lightsaber skill isn't really near tier 8, because of his technique being focused highly on his superior strength. In overall I remember placing him at about tier 7, because there his strength factors in, but in sheer skill he'd be a 5 or 6 IMO.
I don't really see how a guy that can beat up Plo as he did is a tier 7, but ok you know more about him than I do at least. It just seems like a double standard to me that Tiin is higher up when he lacks feats and literally and solely by inference is riding on his accolades, whereas, Savage and all of the other duelists are proven in their dueling feats/skill. Who is going to be the bare minimum for 8 then?