Originally posted by pym-ftw
...Death Battle is embarrassingly poor at research
They're no worse than most forum goers, seeing as most of them miss/forget just as many details.
Anyways, it's not their research I'm referring to, it's their reasoning. Sure, they're (definitely) not always correct, but they at least make a more honest effort to explain themselves, which is something I wish more people would do.
Originally posted by Astner
Gauging a feat with numerical values—when done right—can highlight details generally missed or provide a better understanding of feats that are visually deceptive.If there's no standard then there's no room for debate.
Slippery slope fallacy on the second point, not sharing a unit of measurement didn't stop the international sale of goods in the old days, and it won't stop the exchanging of arguments now, but to pretend there's some specific authority on which canon happenings are valid feats and which aren't is silly and it come off as pretentious.
While I understand the point trying to be made, the problem with "standards of debating" is that none of them are official or true because no one can agree on them, and even then, who's to decide what they should be? There's no elected committee to set these standards into place, and even to change that by selecting any alleged authorities would be a decisively limited undertaking that requires the same level of division we're currently met with.
Originally posted by pym-ftw
...? Are you arguing Friza destabilizing a planet < Buu destroying a planet.
Yes.
If so agreed, if your saying that Buu shot the power of the Sun then it's just baseless speculation at best full on wank at worst.
Not really. If the explosion was violent enough to reach small star level, then it was violent enough to reach small star level.
Are you still mad at me?
I was never mad at you, My son.
Originally posted by pym-ftw
There are a ton of variables like size and distance from you.Generally the porting around style in anime is viewed as a trope and we use other things as speed feats that are far easier quantified.
True enough. But there's also Goku outright vanishing for an extended period against Piccolo, in the middle of an open ring, with a crowd of people watching (Which includes Roshi and his high end bullet time feat, Kami, and the other ki using humans)
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Small Star level would destabilize the solar system and destroy multiple planets... Buu isn't doing that.
Welcome to fiction where battles between planet busters only cause small craters
Also, even star busting would have you a few OoM off solar system busting
But yeah, if the planet was burst apart violently enough to be small star busting, then it was
I'm not sure why we are pretending Frieza actually destroyed Namek in one blast.
Because he did :distracted
Originally posted by pym-ftw
Did you contradict your first statement and then contradict the second statement immediately...
Point is, not going to lie when I say generally we tend to cherry pick things in analysing feats, ala ignoring secondary effects
Fact of the matter is unless the author is a hard sci-fi writer or whatever, he's not going to give a shit if his character went around the circumference of world a few times in seconds but didn't cause massive sonic booms and frictional heat that fried continents or whatever, or if he fired energy blast that vaporised a massive amount of matter the the point where lava was spewing out of the ground (which would be vaping 30-50 km of ground) or whatever but didn't cause massive blastwaves that would cause an extinction event or some shit
To put it in simple terms, only the feat itself matters
Basically: lolfiction
If the earth was replaced by a small star the Solar system would be destroyed...
Oh no, all I was saying is that the planet was burst apart that violently and in such a short time frame, hence it is in the septuple digit yottatons, which is the GBE of a small star of some shit
Also refer to above "only the feat itself matters"
R u trolling or something on the last part or just lying/dumb
>accusations of trolling
>coming from the same guy who said Freiza Saga DBZ was only Mach 5
>and uses low end showings as valid evidence, when they should just be ignored
Good lord you are a joke
Oh no, Freiza did destroy Namek in one blast, because you wouldn't destroy a planet otherwise (well, barring weird chain reaction shit anyhow)
Also:
If so agreed, if your saying that Buu shot the power of the Sun then it's just baseless speculation at best full on wank at worst.
You realize the energy the sun generates in only like, 90 petatons of energy every second, which is piss compared to DBZ characters energy output, right?
Hell, on SDN, when they calc'd the Death Star's superlaser, the amount of energy behind it was more than that of the amount of energy the sun generates every 7000 years
at best full on wank at worst
You abuse that word as much as SpaceBattles does
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Sure, when done right, and with a grain of salt. But the numbers are beginning to supercede the feats, as if the calcs done on those feats are as canon as the feats themselves, which they are not.
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Slippery slope fallacy on the second point, not sharing a unit of measurement didn't stop the international sale of goods in the old days, and it won't stop the exchanging of arguments now, but to pretend there's some specific authority on which canon happenings are valid feats and which aren't is silly and it come off as pretentious.
You can still debate with an intuitive foundation, it's just that a lot of debates will be subject to ambiguity, and there won't be any real answer.
Originally posted by StealthRanger
You abuse that word as much as SpaceBattles does
Originally posted by Astner
Now you're mixing up the quantification of feats with the extrapolation.Please stop with the completely unrelated analogies.
You can still debate with an intuitive foundation, it's just that a lot of debates will be subject to ambiguity, and there won't be any real answer.
I really don't think there's any serious standards in regards to grammatical use of slang.
The analogy is perfect, two people of similar but different systems with different opinions of the value of goods and no governing body to decide for them.
And yeah, we agree here. Often there won't be a real answer. My issue isn't with fictional debates themselves, though, so much as the way SR's post implied there was some authority on which feats count that had decided this previously and laid down criteria, when none exists.
I really don't think there's any serious standards in regards to grammatical use of slang.
Perhaps, but I was referring to his use of the word "wank" as a version of saying "it's too powerful for me/I don't like it so it doesn't count", like what SpaceBattles does when they see feats/calcs that makes a verse/character they don't like more powerful than they want them to be
so much as the way SR's post implied there was some authority on which feats count that had decided this previously and laid down criteria, when none exists
Well just saying vs debates should have some set of house standards, otherwise you end up like MVC or SpaceBattles where shit's just all over the place, eg: Magneto can go from stomping Hal Jordan to being too slow to reliably fight Kenshin
No, because even base Goku by the Buu saga was class 40+ in his lowest showings, and while power levels cannot be used linearly, considering that base Goku by BoTG is still weaker than Frieza, and SSJ1 let Goku surpass Frieza while on Namek, the amp from such a transformation must be substantial.
If you were talking base forms only you might be close on the strength, but probably only strength. I'll let someone else handle the rest because I just don't care enough to recall speed feats and shit.