DE Luke vs Yoda

I'm surprised to see that there is no consensus here though I myself am having trouble choosing a side.

That's because we're trying to figure out how much better DE Sidious is then ROTS Sidious at saber use. DE Sidious is certainly superior, but we're not sure how much his saber skill improved. We're also not sure how much good Leia did him.

Is he though? What makes you so sure about his saber skills improvement after ROTS? He was already incredibly capable with the lightsaber in ROTS.

His ability with the force improved so drastically that it's hard argument to make his force augmentation didn't improve with it.

So it's Yoda vs. ROTS Sidious, result, draw (favoring Sidious), vs. DE Luke vs. DE Sidious, result, win, but with Battle Meditation help from his sister (and possibly her unborn son, no consensus on how much good unborn Anakin Solo is doing mommy.)

Originally posted by Angelalex242
His ability with the force improved so drastically that it's hard argument to make his force augmentation didn't improve with it.

So it's Yoda vs. ROTS Sidious, result, draw (favoring Sidious), vs. DE Luke vs. DE Sidious, result, win, but with Battle Meditation help from his sister (and possibly her unborn son, no consensus on how much good unborn Anakin Solo is doing mommy.)

Well, the most notable power Sidious gained is Force Storm. Now, imagine that kind of power shoved into physical augmentation, and you see why I think he has indeed improved.

Command of the Force and raw power always influence effectiveness in martial aspects of combat, specially when a Jedi have learned to use his talents to enhance his effectiveness in martial aspects of combat.

If Sidious became more powerful in the aftermath of his recovery effort, he is likely to be more effective in martial aspects of combat as well.

However, Sidious may have neglected his martial skills for a long period of time or became more arrogant due to increase in his power and paid the price for such arrogance.

State of mind can also sometimes make significant difference.

To be honest, I am not surprised that Sidious ended up loosing in a martial bout. He lost to Windu too.

And didn't Yoda disarm him as well?

"I have learned to meditate Anger and Will with clarity and precision, and I have learned to open the hidden reservoirs of Dark Side power

...

Using this knowledge, I can unleash the Dark Side energies that swirl invisibly around us, even to shatter the fabric of space itself. In this way, I have created storms."

Seems to me like increased force power.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

To be honest, I am not surprised that Sidious ended up loosing in a martial bout. He lost to Windu too.

And didn't Yoda disarm him as well?

He lost to Windu because Vaapad allowed him to stalemate Sidious' speed until Anakin arrived and became the Shatterpoint.

Didn't Vitiate hug HoT's lightsaber? And get disarmed by a Meetra saber throw?

Yeah, let's not compare martial skills lol.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Don't have my copy of DE on me, but pretty sure that's when they were overpowering Palpatine's Force Storm. She certainly aided at that point. But I also don't believe she contributed to the Lightsaber duel.

Her aid at that point was in helping Luke to sway away from the Dark Side and stay on the Light Side IMO.

👆

The audio novel makes it clear that Leia did not add her power to his until after the duel.

Luke takes this.

Well...it's that vs. Wookiepedia, which says Leia was indeed using battle meditation.

But if Leia was doing nothing, then Win vs. Sidious beats Draw vs. Sidious.

Wookieepedia, versus videos on youtube, and fan made tier lists are not legitimate sources.

I told you before, Wookieepedia has footnotes, and I can't be bothered to look them up for you. You have no basis of denying Wookieepedia unless you can deny the footnotes it's based on.

The audiodrama wasn't made by the author of DE either, though, and at multiple points contradicts the comic [of course, only in minor ways]; I'm not positive they're canon either.

That being said, Battle Meditation or no, the text in the comic makes it clear that the presence of Leia and Anakin changed the tide of the battle. Maybe it was something as simplistic as him being able to draw on the Force Bonds between them, but when he fought Sidious alone he lost.

Made by the same author or not the audio drama is canon. So it's a moot point.

And what text makes it clear that Leia was helping?

Originally posted by Angelalex242
I told you before, Wookieepedia has footnotes, and I can't be bothered to look them up for you. You have no basis of denying Wookieepedia unless you can deny the footnotes it's based on.

Wookieepedia isn't a source, I'm sorry.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
I told you before, Wookieepedia has footnotes, and I can't be bothered to look them up for you. You have no basis of denying Wookieepedia unless you can deny the footnotes it's based on.

Originally posted by Trocity
He lost to Windu because Vaapad allowed him to stalemate Sidious' speed until Anakin arrived and became the Shatterpoint.

Didn't Vitiate hug HoT's lightsaber? And get disarmed by a Meetra saber throw?

Yeah, let's not compare martial skills lol.

Do keep in mind that Vaapad doesn't makes the combatant unstoppable. Count Dooku managed to fight Windu effectively as well but he let the droids overwhelm Windu and escaped. In-fact, even Talzin managed to duel Windu for a while and she isn't noted for martial prowess.

Point is that Sidious have limits too.

I am not sure why you mentioned Vitiate in this case. Vitiate is an Inquisitor (Sorcerer), not a Sith Warrior. For him, martial aspects of combat weren't important.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
I told you before, Wookieepedia has footnotes, and I can't be bothered to look them up for you. You have no basis of denying Wookieepedia unless you can deny the footnotes it's based on.

Dude the Audio Drama IS a Source.

Wookie IS NOT a Source. There may be a canon source in the foot notes, but even then Wookie claiming something comes from a source does not make it true. You have to quote the source itself for proof.

A lot of Wookie is taking someone's understanding of a certain source, like- Dooku is weak to kinetic energy- Footnote source: ROTS Novel. Problem- The ROTS Novel doesn't quite say that.

Originally posted by NewGuy01

That being said, Battle Meditation or no, the text in the comic makes it clear that the presence of Leia and Anakin changed the tide of the battle.

Again, that's when they were reversing the effects of the Force Storm. There's no proof Leia was adding her power to Luke's during the Saber fight.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
but when he fought Sidious alone he lost.

Which would be pretty good proof, if he didn't do that on his own personal Dark Side Nexus. Whilst once Luke had escaped the clutches of the Dark Side, got rid of his conflict with his Sister's aid, and fought Palpatine in a neutral setting, then he beat Palpatine in a straight up duel.

You answered your own question. He fought Palpatine on a Dark Side Nexus. Before he "had escaped the clutches of the Dark Side". The entire point of the battle was that Luke tried to fight darkness with darkness and failed.