Originally posted by carver9
Shields, invisibility, superior fighting skills, much faster, weapons that had Namor on the ropes (who Is superior to Hawkman).
Does nothing to show how he can put hawkman down, you need to stay out of hawkman fights because you have admitted you have not read any new 52 hawkman....
Originally posted by carver9
Shields, invisibility, superior fighting skills, much faster, weapons that had Namor on the ropes (who Is superior to Hawkman).
Shields over HF that heals impalement? I'd say it's a wash. What's the strongest they've tanked?
Invisibility? It might not even work on Hawkman.
Faster? Debateable. But, agreed, New 52 Hawkman has nowhere near the number of feats BP has.
Weapons that he had prepped? Weren't they the miniature suns?
Here is some feats for Hawkman I listed last summer in Wolverine vs Hawkman thread.
Originally posted by Supermutant
Of course I'm comparing Wolverine when he had a healing factor b/c current Logan would get curb stomp.Hawkman takes massive punishment from Shaggyman android then resists being torn apart by Flash, Cyborg, Aquaman, and Green Lantern androids all design by Pr. Ivo. Ivo states that they are having a hard time trying to put Hawkman down. Continues fighting Shaggyman when JLA arrives.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3217456-justice+league+of+america+%282013-%29+005-005.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3217457-justice+league+of+america+%282013-%29+005-007.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3217461-justice+league+of+america+%282013-%29+005-009.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3217462-justice+league+of+america+%282013-%29+005-010.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3217463-justice+league+of+america+%282013-%29+005-012.jpgPunches Blockbuster so hard that he almost goes into orbit.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3212723-the+savage+hawkman+%282011-%29+020-015.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3212721-the+savage+hawkman+%282011-%29+020-016.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3212722-the+savage+hawkman+%282011-%29+020-017.jpgIs impaled through chest and heart, heals immediately.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3211233-savagehawkman_18_thegroup-013.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3211234-savagehawkman_18_thegroup-014.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3211235-savagehawkman_18_thegroup-015.jpgExplains some of the nth metal capabilities.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3211041-deathstroke_14_thegroup_015.jpg
Restores Hawkman's wings.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3203566-savagehawkman_0_thegroup_014.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3203567-savagehawkman_0_thegroup_015.jpgHeals instantly from being shot in back by sniper (Pike).
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3208804-savagehawkman_12_thegroup_002.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3208805-savagehawkman_12_thegroup_003.jpgFly speed is up to 500 mph
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3208908-greenarrow_14_thegroup_006.jpg
Berserker Mode (full combat mode) Nth metal covers entire body and enhances stats. With one shot sends Blockbuster through cars, gets crushed by two cars w/o damage, and pounds Blockbuster through concrete.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3212709-the+savage+hawkman+%282011-%29+020-007.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3212710-the+savage+hawkman+%282011-%29+020-009.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3212711-the+savage+hawkman+%282011-%29+020-010.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3212712-the+savage+hawkman+%282011-%29+020-011.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3212713-the+savage+hawkman+%282011-%29+020-012.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3212714-the+savage+hawkman+%282011-%29+020-013.jpgSo this ends one of two ones, Logan gets koed after being punched into orbit or gets his head cut off from Hawkman's nth metal axe.
Originally posted by carver9
Scans showing that he wasn't proficient with his abilities. Also, please provide scans that tells us he increased In power and skill since then.
Also, the DS/Hawkman fight took place in Savage Hawkman #14. Here is Savage Hawkman #11, where he's still learning about Nth metal and his past:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/qwirtle/SavageHawkman_11_TheGroup_002_zps861be80d.jpg
More to that, he has pretty insane energy projection:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/qwirtle/SavageHawkman_2_TheGroup_003_zps103c9640.jpg
AND, I doubt invisibility will help BP:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/qwirtle/SavageHawkman_9_TheGroup_020_zps37f5e585.jpg
Originally posted by thingy150
Hmm, well having time to gather a nation also gives you time to grab any tech you have on you. No matter, it is off panel and for all we know he cut him with vibranium and he got woozy. Or toaa showed up and fudged sh*t up. My point is we do not know how the fight went down.Hawkman takes this fight in my opinion....
I'm still sticking with Panther
I don't see why the daggers couldn't phase through the Nth metal and hit vital organs.
Originally posted by Vanguard
I'm still sticking with PantherI don't see why the daggers couldn't phase through the Nth metal and hit vital organs.
Not that that would do anything:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3211235-savagehawkman_18_thegroup-015.jpg
To add to Darksaint:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/12/120679/3965613-3827521-justice%2Bleague%2Bunited%2B%282014-%29%2B001-011.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/12/120679/3965614-3889706-justice%2Bleague%2Bunited%2B%282014-%29%2B002-010.jpg
He is able to regrow limbs and he has taken punishment from wonder woman, aquaman and shaggy man which is mostly due to his uber healing factor.
The "vital" organs thing shows how ill equipped you guys are to argue against hawkman.
Originally posted by thingy150
To add to Darksaint:http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/12/120679/3965613-3827521-justice%2Bleague%2Bunited%2B%282014-%29%2B001-011.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/12/120679/3965614-3889706-justice%2Bleague%2Bunited%2B%282014-%29%2B002-010.jpgHe is able to regrow limbs and he has taken punishment from wonder woman, aquaman and shaggy man which is mostly due to his uber healing factor.
The "vital" organs thing shows how ill equipped you guys are to argue against hawkman.
Shaggy Man, I'll give you, but Wonder Woman and Aquaman are bad benchmarks because they tend to hold back a lot.
Pre Nu52, with a less uber healing factor, Carter was taking shots from heavy hitters, including from Black Adam in Black Reign. But in the Black Adam mini, he gets mauled.
Not to say those aren't impressive scans. But, has he actually shrugged off getting shot through the heart, his throat ripped, a lung ruptured, or anything close to it?
All Panther has to do is incapacitate him to win, even if he recovers quickly.
Originally posted by cdtm
Shaggy Man, I'll give you, but Wonder Woman and Aquaman are bad benchmarks because they tend to hold back a lot.Pre Nu52, with a less uber healing factor, Carter was taking shots from heavy hitters, including from Black Adam in Black Reign. But in the Black Adam mini, he gets mauled.
Not to say those aren't impressive scans. But, has he actually shrugged off getting shot through the heart, his throat ripped, a lung ruptured, or anything close to it?
All Panther has to do is incapacitate him to win, even if he recovers quickly.
Love how you do not know the context of wonder woman when it I stated this and showed it. SHE WAS POSSESSED AND BLOODLUSTED WHEN SHE HIT HIM!
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3211233-savagehawkman_18_thegroup-013.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3211234-savagehawkman_18_thegroup-014.jpg
Next scan is not working but he heals right after, he gets impaled through the heart just like you asked. Incapacitate means to stop him which if he comes back right after that does not count as incapacitation and he will continue to fight.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, the DS/Hawkman fight took place in Savage Hawkman #14. Here is Savage Hawkman #11, where he's still learning about Nth metal and his past:http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/qwirtle/SavageHawkman_11_TheGroup_002_zps861be80d.jpg
More to that, he has pretty insane energy projection:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/qwirtle/SavageHawkman_2_TheGroup_003_zps103c9640.jpgAND, I doubt invisibility will help BP:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/qwirtle/SavageHawkman_9_TheGroup_020_zps37f5e585.jpg
In the end the magical fire/energy projection will give him the win no matter what considering if panther hurts him bad then this will happen on autopilot.
Originally posted by thingy150
Love how you do not know the context of wonder woman when it I stated this and showed it. SHE WAS POSSESSED AND BLOODLUSTED WHEN SHE HIT HIM!
I don't read Nu52.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3211233-savagehawkman_18_thegroup-013.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3211234-savagehawkman_18_thegroup-014.jpgNext scan is not working but he heals right after, he gets impaled through the heart just like you asked. Incapacitate means to stop him which if he comes back right after that does not count as incapacitation and he will continue to fight.
Nice scans.
On "coming back not counting", though:
Wolverine came back right after that. Next panel, he had Spider-Oct in a stranglehold.
It still counts as a win on the forums.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85The avalanche of asininity he poses threatens this thread, true. But that'd be just another day on KMC.
Just want to address some points, I see you are currently engaged in a monumental debate against our good friend thingy - truly an epic clash of titans (I hope you aren't too bruised afterwards from the sheer weight of his crafted arguments).
Originally posted by DarkSaint85It's true that Shang Chi frustrated Black Dwarf. But you can hardly call that a stalemate. Shang Chi was fairly getting stomped on by the look of him. It's not uncommon for vastly superior beings to underestimate a mere human's tenacity or toy with them. Then again, Shang Chi has stood up to Hiroim the Oldstrong before he was ever equipped with Starktech. So there's precedent.
Yes, Hawkman was bleeding/compound fracturing pretty badly, but since then, his healing factor seems to have improved (regrowing limbs etc). And he was hanging. With Blockbuster, whilst you brought up Catwoman, Black Dwarf was getting frustrated against Shang Chi. Yes, I know he had gauntlets etc - and yes, I would place him above Selina - but I'm not sure what your use of Catwoman was meant to prove. In the same comic, Dwarf goes from stalemating with Shang, to hanging with some of the most bloodthirsty heralds in Marvel. These weird inconsistencies happen, and doesn't take away from the original point.
The difference being, Catwoman defeated Blockbuster outright. Shang Chi and Black Widow were getting stomped on by Black Dwarf. Not even close to being comparable and, therefore, one can hardly poo-poo away the Black Dwarf showing by citing to Blockbuster.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85There isn't much to be gained from speculating that Black Panthers victory wasn't anything but a legitimate affair. Stick with what's within the four corners of the book. Had T'Challa thanked Shuri for helping him, we could surmise he had help. Had T'challa jumped into that battle with his Dora Milaje at his side, we could surmise he didn't fight on his own. We saw none of that before or alluded to after the fact. We've seen him take on Namor in a battle to the death. We've seen him one-shot Black Swan. We saw Black Dwarf run away from him in Wakanda.
As for the outright defeat of Dwarf, that happened off-panel. Yes, I fully 100% agree - a win is a win. But the circumstances are unknown. I'm not going to add colour to the victory and try to lowball it, but anything could have happened. T'Challa could have just straight up given him a beat down. His arm could have been broken by him tripping over a rock and landing awkwardly - or it could have withstood a full bloodlusted smash from Dwarf's fist, for example.
