Talzin, Maul and Savage vs. Vitiate, HoT and Satele

Well I do agree she isn't a mook, and she's better than Shitiate. Relative to anyone else here though.. nah.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
My only qualm is with the notion that Satele is a full tier above Savage. She's no Dooku.

She's no Dooku. But she's got roughly the bladework of Kenobi and perhaps the TK power of Savage (or perhaps even Maul). I think Savage is a full tier below Maul and Kenobi in all out.

A-:
Mace
Anakin
Dooku

[gap]

B+:
Maul
Satele
Kenobi

C+:
Savage

Well, in Satele's defense, she IS Grandmaster. And she probably didn't win that job in a raffle.

Rofl at Satele being on par with Maul and Kenobi and above Savage by a tier.

Originally posted by Selenial
He didn't though, he summoned illusions and used Lightning and shit, depending on how you look at game mechanics. Even in the cutscene vitiate doesn't even have his blade out...

He used the force.

Oh well you don't mind arguing against him when it comes to melee combat though. He walked right towards HoT and didnt even get his lightsaber out. This suggests that he isnt as vulnerable as you and many others assume he is when it comes to melee combat. It seems to me that you have a habit of ignoring details that hint TOR characters capabilities but you also obsessively focus on details that hint their weaknesses.

...But people are acting like Shan did win that job in a raffle. Or is at least unusually weak for a Grandmaster.

She is just a mediocre duelist.

Even if she is a mediocre duelist, Shan's strength in the Force must make up for it, or she wouldn't have her job.

Think of it this way: If she had to justify her position as Grandmaster to all the other grandmasters, how would she do so?

Her strength in the force isn't enough to beat Savage or Maul. Her best feat is crushing droids, Savage has destroyed a room of Mandalorian iron. She isn't ragdolling him.

...Then how does she justify being Grandmaster?

^
In that pathetic era even something like this small piece of shit, Zym, could've become a GM... ah, wait...

Originally posted by Selenial
That's merely the style of the show. Ventress swings with absolutely no skill in her duel with Grevious, neither does he. Neither does Eeth Koth or even Windu, TCW was terrible at showing lightsaber skill. That's like me saying Vitiate gets speedblitzed because he's slow as **** in all the Cutscenes he's in.

Her Sword won't have "confused him". No Jedi survives what Windu has survived if they almost get beheaded due to being "confused." A Bounty hunter electrocuted Windu with a baby strapped to their chest and he still reacted fast enough to save his own life...

Still, giving your point some benefit of doubt, I am still not convinced by the competence of the witch in martial aspects of combat. Maybe she is good in these matters but she really sucked with a lightsaber. And I am not sure how she would have performed against Sidious with her magic sword.

Windu have fought mostly lightsaber-wielding opponents. Sorcery was new stuff for him and Talzin packed lot of strength too.

Not questioning Windu's competence but people really blow him out of proportion because of his performance against Sidious. Windu managed to immerse himself deeply into the Vaapad during this confrontation and this enabled Windu to duel Sidious on equal footing until the Jedi found a shatterpoint to exploit. Windu's talents clearly made the difference but they are not automatic win for him in every scenario and neither he will eliminate all others on moment's notice. Things aren't so black and white.

Originally posted by Selenial
You asked what her drain feats were. I'm not trying to use it here.

No, Vitiate's "power is so great" that on a Dark Side Nexus, a weakened Revan couldn't instantaneously rag-doll a guard that's trained to withstand force attacks. Oh how pro. And oh wow, totally conceding the debate right here. I didn't know Vitiate could Tk [B]whole protocol droids!! 😱 😱 😱

That's a baseless and frankly hilarious argument, she can do everything in her revived form that she could in her original form. You do not seem to understand that her death occurred during the Jar Jar act, she had shown the ability to teleport and discussed it in the book of sith before that.

And surely that shows he can't defend himself? And you're using a pathetic argument with TP to be honest, for multiple reasons. Vitiate's best TP has all been done over time and with Rituals, the Children of the Emperor took years to condition. The only one you could even say was instant was the HOT, and even that is nothing but assumption. [/B]

Sorry for the delay in responding. Hopefully you've calmed down now tho.

You brought up Talzin's drain feats as things that put her above Vitiate. So I think you were trying to use it.

Revan wasn't weakened, and there's no reason a nexus would affect power the guard was drawing directly off of Vitiate. Besides which a nexus isn't going to make enough of a difference that Revan's unable to effect a mook merely drawing on Vitiate's power on nexus and somehow be on par with the big guy himself off nexus. Lol @ a non-force sensitive trained to resist force techniques. I'm sure all that l33t training makes tk super ineffective, maybe digs his heels in a bit, makes a low posture. I can see why Revan would find it hard to TK him with moves like that. Also disintegrating a protocol droid is still leagues better than anything Talzin has done with TK. Which is um, oh remind me, anything at all? I seem to recall her making a cup float once.

Son of Dathomir claims that she gave up most of her physical form helping Maul. So I have no clue what you're talking about.

Just because Dooku is an ignorant chuckle**** against sorcery doesn't mean Vitiate is. Plus I highly doubt Talzin can perform that kind of possession in a corporeal form. Vitiate's TP isn't rituals. ****ing hell with the Vitiate ritual BS. 🙄 It's confirmed multiple times in multiple sources to be incredibly powerful and very easy and quick for him to do. He's the most dominating force-user the galaxy has ever seen. He can and will engage Talzin in a mental duel and crush her. Try again.