And defeating them by virtue of their own inability to fight against non-lightsaber form techniques, not Shaak's own skill. Evidenced by the fact she only killed them in droves when she turned to unorthodox, direct methods with an electrostaff, whereas every time she had a saber in her hand she struggled to kill any. Luceno did a good job of explaining it to us.
Dooku had taught Grievous well, and Grievous had taught his elite well. Coupled with Dooku's coaching, their programming in the seven classic forms of lightsaber dueling - in the Jedi arts - made them lethal opponents. But they were not invincible, not even Grievous, because they could be confused by unpredictability, and they had no understanding of finesse. A player of dejarik could memorize all the classic openings and countermoves, and still not be a master of the game. Defeat often came at the hands of less experienced players who knew nothing about the traditional strategies. A professional fighter, a combat artist, could be defeated by a cantina brawler who knew nothing about form but everything about ending a conflict quickly, without a thought to winning gracefully or elegantly. Enslavement to form opened one to defeat by the unforeseen. This was often the failing of trained duelists, and it would be the failing of the Jedi Order.-Labyrinth of Evil
Right, you do realize that her objective was to get the Chancellor to safety right? not have a full out fight with Grevious and the Magna-Guards. She kept them at bay and retreated. and then she destroyed them when she stood her ground.
Also, Jar'Kai is unorthodox? they seemed to have had no problem pushing Fisto back.
I'm going with Shaak Ti, personally.
Originally posted by Fated Xtasywatch?v=TYxu2JNs66o7:10-7:35 Ti is unable to kill a single MagnaGuard in this timeframe, in a simple 1v1 fight with nowhere to run and nobody interfering. In less than that time Fisto slaughtered two of them.
Right, you do realize that her objective was to get the Chancellor to safety right? not have a full out fight with Grevious and the Magna-Guards. She kept them at bay and retreated. and then she destroyed them when she stood her ground.Also, Jar'Kai is unorthodox? they seemed to have had no problem pushing Fisto back.
I'm going with Shaak Ti, personally.
I didn't say Jar'kai was unorthodox, partly because Ti didn't actually kill anything when she wielded an electrostaff alongside her lightsaber. The only time she began rapidly killing MagnaGuards was when she just had a staff, and the manner in which she killed them lines up perfectly with the description of what MagnaGuards can't cope with properly in Labyrinth of Evil.
Description:
A professional fighter, a combat artist, could be defeated by a cantina brawler who knew nothing about form but everything about ending a conflict quickly, without a thought to winning gracefully or elegantly.Result:
Ti struggles with single MagnaGuards and only gained ground against the army due to their own limitations.
GG
Originally posted by ILS
And defeating them by virtue of their own inability to fight against non-lightsaber form techniques, not Shaak's own skill. Evidenced by the fact she only killed them in droves when she turned to unorthodox, direct methods with an electrostaff, whereas every time she had a saber in her hand she struggled to kill any. Luceno did a good job of explaining it to us.
-Labyrinth of Evil
I find this kinda jarring, then what's the point of even training if defeat came often for those who were master combatants or master game players?
I mean losing to a cantina brawler and a noob dejarik player, you may aswell just stop what you're doing.
Edit: Wait...ok I get the combat one, but not really the dejarik one.
Originally posted by NewGuy01It's not an excuse, it's an observation that explains why Shaak Ti can't kill one MagnaGuard with her lightsaber as fast as she killed six with an electrostaff. And calling the micro series ridiculous isn't an argument.
Yeah, it's a pretty desperate excuse, even if it does have some merit. It doesn't matter, though, because the miniseries battles are ridiculous anyway.
Originally posted by ZenwolfThe point is, MagnaGuards are designed primarily to face lightsaber wielding opponents who utilise the seven lightsaber forms. When faced with something as simple and, to them, unpredictable, as being stabbed in the chest by a staff, they can't cope.
I find this kinda jarring, then what's the point of even training if defeat came often for those who were master combatants or master game players?I mean losing to a cantina brawler and a noob dejarik player, you may aswell just stop what you're doing.
Edit: Wait...ok I get the combat one, but not really the dejarik one.
Those are just analogies, and they hold true. A master fighter can prepare all day for all the intricate techniques and strategies one could present going into a fight, but if they don't prepare for basic, fundamental principles of fighting they'll wind up on the losing end.
Originally posted by ILS
The point is, MagnaGuards are designed primarily to face lightsaber wielding opponents who utilise the seven lightsaber forms. When faced with something as simple and, to them, unpredictable, as being stabbed in the chest by a staff, they can't cope.Those are just analogies, and they hold true. A master fighter can prepare all day for all the intricate techniques and strategies one could present going into a fight, but if they don't prepare for basic, fundamental principles of fighting they'll wind up on the losing end.
Ya I got the combat one, professional fighter/artist didn't see that, so they would all be fancy with it n such, so ya they could lose an actual fight.
To be fair Fisto is kind of the exception to the rule of Shii-Cho being a blaster deflecting form, otherwise he wouldn't be slaughtering MagnaGuards, outsparring AotC Kenobi and being considered one of the best duelists in the Order. But while I didn't see that as an issue I did overlook that Makashi is a direct counter for Shii-Cho. Still, Fisto is obviously more skilled than her by a fair margin so it's hard to gauge just how much the form countering would come into play.