Shaak Ti vs. Kit Fisto

Fated-

You're saying she didn't kill any of them with her lightsaber, she did. I was correcting you.

You know, another factor that would come into play, would be that she is unfamiliar with the Magna-Guards

so she was being wary, gauging their skill and then butchered them all with easy. Just my two cents, but not fact.

The fact remains, when she actually felt like it, she destroyed the magna-guards with absolute ease - with her saber. or was there some sort of unorthodoxy in her moves that caught the Magna-Guards off guard?

Because she's getting the hell out dodge? they're in a tram-station with active trams passing and going, she's blocking it's strikes and simultaneously maneuvering herself out of that dangerous spot. and once she "get's serious" she butchers the magna-guards.

On Naboo, when Grevious suffers defeat at the hands of the Gungans. he doesn't even destroy any of the magna-guards there. though, he was fighting dooku[ish] so there's that too.

That is a really dumb point. Nahdar Vebb sliced two magna-guards within 5-7 seconds. so what? does that put him above Shaak Ti? i mean if we're going to compare how they perform against a common enemy then, wouldn't that be the case?

that's a pretty flawed excuse.

And like I've said, Fisto has other displays to put him above Shaak anyway.

So, precise strikes that ended them with a single blow, isn't a show of Makashi? deadly accuracy?

Except when she butchered two of them right? and when she kept them all at bay with her saber and then again with the staff and saber. I don't know about you, but hitting them with pin-point accuracy is a show of Makashi to me.

Yeah? well, saying that Ti admitted inferiority based on your own deduction would be even more "lolworthy"

Fact remains, she and depa are listed as "great swordbeings" and are later counted amongs the likes of Dooku, Anakin and Mace. But if you want to continue going against the very words of the book, then far be it from to stop you.

And? these are eight metal machines with superior strength, she locked with them all, you're really just making excuses to make ti look like a pleb here if you think that they didn't put any of their strength into the deadlock. really? I You mean aside from being a blur? and moving faster than a ship that took two minutes to get to its destination while it took her a mere 30 seconds? lets not forget that she was hurt by electro staff(which were able to take down Clone troopers by the way)

Right.. because being a blur supersedes Kit's showings, or any Jedi worth half their salt 🙄

Ship feat isn't even relevant to combat or noteworthy.

I'm sure Kit's lightsaber will be doing a better job.

Alright, tone down the sass, every other time i mentioned her fight with grevious i stated that she contended with him "briefly" don't exaggerate my one **** up.

The fact is, she and the others were not at 100%, not Aayla, not K'kruhk, not Ki-Adi and not Shaak Ti. So, lets "not be misleading here" he only beat them because he had every advantage in the book, they were exhausted, he had them cornered and they had been fighting prior to the battle with grevious.

And let's not pretend being on the larger side of a 5v1 isn't a pretty absurd advantage to have over someone, despite that someone standing in the middle of all of said 5 and outfighting them simultaneously.

No, i'm saying that Shaak Ti lost to a fully healthy Grevious who had every advantage imaginable, and was the second Jedi to last longer than a second against him - whilst tired. I believe that Shaak Ti would win against grevious in a one on one if she was at 100%.

Point being, it's obvious that Fisto enjoyed several advantages during that fight, shii-cho, Grevious's arrogance, injury and clumsiness with his new limbs. The doctor droid even explicitly states that he shouldn't fight, yet he fought and lost because of it.

And nobody denied this. Not sure why you're still banging on about it tbh.

She has them

Ah, so he had to call on the darkness of Felucia to combat shaak ti? not use his own skill?

I fail to see how that would hinder his ability to draw on the dark-side. it's not as if someone was actively suppressing his force ability, it's only Shaak Ti keeping the dark side away.

On neutral ground, the Force's alignment is balanced between both sides of the spectrum, allowing Force Users of any alignment to draw on the Force as an energy source as freely as the environment allows.

On Felucia the dark side was weak while the light was stronger.

Yeah, just don't toss around your own speculation, as fact.

except that she was keeping several of the guards at bay. or did you not watch that part of the video? Let's talk about Fisto, he was unable to handle 3 magna-guards and had to retreat while Shaak took on an great number of them. So....? where was his speed there?

Ah.. see we had this issue with Anakin fighting MagnaGuards with another near-equal duelist present (Dooku). Now I'm not sure, tbh, but I think maybe Grievous being there might have been why Fisto wasn't comfortable taking on three MagnaGuards. Call me nuts here, but perhaps Fisto didn't want to fight the three Elites in addition to Grievous, due to Grievous or the trio separately being something of a challenge. Tbh?

Except Kit couldn't handle 3 magna-guards and his apprentice took them down in 5-7 seconds with ease. So what does that say? because of this Nahdar>Kit and Shaak Ti?

Yeah? give me the quotes, i'd like to see those quotes. if it's just "the best swordsmen in the temple" or "the greatest swordsmen anakin fought" I will laugh, hard.

Fact is, no feats support this. so until further news on Drallig appears. Shaak Ti>Drallig.

[QUOTE]Right, Eeth Koth, Kit, Obi-Wan, Anakin and Gallia never had any trouble with Magna-Guards right? except for when Koth was forced on the defensive, Obi stalemated a magna guard for twenty seconds, anakin for 15-20, Fisto didn't even blitz the magna guards in grevious' lair and Gallia was having trouble with them in the comic where she died. yup, only Ahsoka and Shaak ti, no one else.

Just Ahsoka and Shaak I'm afraid.

yeah right? after she clashed with him and while her supposed "superior" died with a simple strike and as did many others. wow, much hilarious, very lols, so funny.

Except quotes call her a formidable fighter, a duelist that only the best of the order could beat, a great sword being counted amongst the greats and she is "revered" by the Jedi. She's continuously called a master of Ataru and Makashi, and is stated to be one of the most accomplished jedi in lightsaber combat, she is stated to have Legendary strength in the force. even Mace praised her at one point calling her deadly.

fact is, as of ROTS shaak ti is strong and powerful as well as an accomplished duelist. Her TFU incarnation is even more so. Shaak Ti wins.

Kit is among the best in the Order. She wasn't shortlisted in that quote. Revered, but not in terms of lightsaber skill, and that accolade would prove nothing relating to this discussion anyway, being a master of lightsaber forms is irrelevant to practical skill, Kit also has "one of the most" accolades, and having "legendary" strength in the Force is ambiguous at best. Mace has also praised Kit pretty extensively, so fail to see your point there.

I agree with everything apart from those three dreadful words at the end.

Ahsoka's performance against the three (or four?) MagnaGuards is pretty impressive, given she became a Padawan like a day earlier.

Indeed^

Ahsoka did as well as Shaak Ti did against a common opponent a day after becoming a padawan. Shaak Ti's looking pretty dope guys.

Originally posted by ILS

Being the temple's finest swordmaster would elevate her above Ti, yes. I can't see how that is funny though. Also, Ti not even being mentioned whilst Drallig was directly mentioned as being someone of considerable skill, yet no challenge to Anakin, is telling of her presence being insignificant.
Part 2 coming soon.

Also Cin was noted a priority threat for elimination, something which Ti doesn't have, along with the statements of Dooku and it's noted that few can match a Battlemaster's skill with a lightsaber.

Jedi Masters who focus on the use of a lightsaber to the exclusion of all else, are some of the most deadliest beings in the galaxy. Few beings can match their skill with an energy blade, and many a conflict has hinged upon the martial prowess of skilled Jedi Masters.

- Taken from Threats to the Galaxy, under Jedi Battlemaster.

Ontop of that, Cin being personally trained by Yoda in lightsaber combat and him being noted as one of top swordsman in the Jedi Order.

So really this whole Anakin dueling Ti thing sounds far fetched, because I've looked at TFU databank, it says nothing on it. I looked through TFU campaign guide, says nothing on that, I've looked through my other sources involving Ti...and nothing on that.

So it doesn't add up, that Ti would survive an encounter with Anakin when Cin couldn't. On an interesting note though, as per the ROTS novel, Cin was also dealing with Clone Troopers firing upon him and some younglings as he was fighting Anakin.

Yep, it was an error, so she never dueled Anakin, it's been removed from her page. I always thought it was odd considering.

Didn't Anakin choke out one of them?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Yep, it was an error, so she never dueled Anakin, it's been removed from her page. I always thought it was odd considering.

Take a good hard look at yourselves, Shaak Ti fans. This is an important day for you. It's an opportunity for you to cover your losses, accept inferiority, and move onto a less shitty Togruta like Ahsoka who might turn into a good duelist when she gets a bit older. Until then you aren't really cooking with fire with this MagnaGuard business.

Originally posted by ILS
So what you're saying is... one of Shaak Ti's best dueling feats, that was shit anyway, that has been lauded in both versus series youtube videos and boards as the hottest shit since Agen Kolar nearly soloing Sidious... is fan-fiction?

Take a good hard look at yourselves, Shaak Ti fans. This is an important day for you. It's an opportunity for you to cover your losses, accept inferiority, and move onto a less shitty Togruta like Ahsoka who might turn into a good duelist when she gets a bit older. Until then you aren't really cooking with fire with this MagnaGuard business.

Pretty much yeah, I guess what that whole thing stems from is this quote..

Shaak Ti was in deep meditation when Darth Vader and his forces stormed the Temple. She quickly rallied other Jedi and fought bravely to repel the attack. But it was soon obvious that the temple would be lost.

- Taken from TFU Databank

Which turned into her dueling and actually stunning him.

Tbh when I first saw it, it literally made 0 sense to me as to why she could actually duel him long enough to stun him and get away, when Cin Drallig couldn't being her superior.

Shaak Ti probably sacrificed all of the padawans as frontline fodder against Vader, she's good at killing padawans.

LOL

Originally posted by carthage
Didn't Anakin choke out one of them?

wow...

Alright, guess I’m debating again.

Originally posted by ILS
Fated-
I was clearly not referring to her killing two of them with saber throw from behind, which bears no relevance to lightsaber combat, with your hands, using the forms. It's a moot point.
A disadvantage shared by both the MagnaGuards and every other Jedi who has fought them? They use the seven forms - they can't be that unfamiliar anyway.

You're argument of Fisto>Ti is based on a showing that Fisto beat two Magna-Guards in less time than Ti. Which is -in fact- wrong.

The text in LoE doesn't specify the time of which it took Fisto to destroy the droids. It only stated that he was evading them and then killed them. him beating them faster than Ti beating the Magna-Guards is an inference of your own creation, not fact.

"To the rear of the car, where Grievous's pair of MagnaGuards had made the mistake of pitting themselves against Kit Fisto, the Nautolan's blade was a cyclone of blazing blue light. Resistant to the energy outpourings of a lightsaber, the phrik alloy staffs were potent weapons, but like any weapon they needed to find their target, and Kit simply wasn't allowing that. In moves a Twi'lek dancer might envy, he spun around the guards, claiming a limb from both with each rotation: left legs, right arms, right legs...
The speed of the train saw to the rest, ultimately whisking the droids into the canyon like insects blown from the windscreen of a speeder bike."

— Star Wars: Labyrinth of Evil.

There is no mention of time. In fact he was evading them. He didn't outright perform better than Shaak Ti. that is false.

Correction - she killed them with her staff, not her saber. The only saber kills she achieved were when she killed two with saber throw, which we both know is irrelevant, and when she killed one after an extensive period of dueling. The ones she killed with her staff died due to their own inability, as per LoE.
She wasn't dodging anything when they weren't in immediate threat of being hit, and when she was fighting in such areas for considerable periods of time she failed to kill anything without a lot of bother.

Once again i point you two Kit fisto's own inability to defeat the magna-guards from Grevious' lair and the fact that Fisto defeating the two magna-guards faster than Ti, is wrong.

I don't remember Makashi simply disregarding elegance or the opponents defence, taking to the air, and impaling the opponent bluntly and directly. Maybe you could tell me about that tho tbh?

Is that so? So I’m guessing several in and out of universe quote should simply be disregarded based on your own conclusion?

The second form of classical lightsaber combat, Makashi, is also known as the Contention Form, or the Way of the Ysalamiri, after a curious creature from the inner rim. This is the preferred style for lightsber-to-lightsaber dueling, and it is the most elegant of the six traditional forms. Makashi emphasizes precision strikes and well balanced footwork. A form II practitioner keeps both feet, one in front of the other, on a line and advances and retreats along this line, avoiding the leaps and acrobatics of Form IV. It is a one-handed style, thus its adherents prefer using well-balanced lightsabers, including curved-hilt variants. A successful Form II duel is quickly ended by penetrating an opponent's defenses and landing a Mark of Contact or a disarming strike. Skilled duelists are proficient in two Marks of Contact. Sun djem allows them to swiftly dislodge lightsabers with quick, spinning moves or by striking and burning an enemy's fingers. Shiak consists of straight-ahead piercing stabs that are a natural result of this stance. Form II duels are a respected tradition among those Masters who have earned the honorific title of blademaster. Every year during Mid-Year Fete, blademasters exhibit their skills for their fellow Jedi in the exterior courtyard of the Jedi Temple. Marked by an opening salute and a blade flourish, duels are run until all challengers have been disarmed or have conceded. The use of Form II experienced a resurgence during the last war when the Jedi Knights found themselves facing armies of saber-wielding Sith. Makashi's fluid attacks and feints provided a critical edge during those duels to the death. Fewer Padawans have elected to study Form II in the years following the defeat of the Sith at Ruusan, because the odds of encountering a lightsaber-wielding enemy are now close to zero. However I still consider Form II the most disciplined of all forms, and I still encourage its study.
— Jedi Path.
(credit to emperordmb for the quote)

Could you show me Shaak Ti butchering two MagnaGuards with her lightsaber please, in the manner you're describing? Haven't seen it personally.

The same video, where she was fighting the two Magna-Guards and evading the train. Also, her not totally butchering the Magna-Guards is completely in keeping with the Makashi Tenets and it's stated that a single blow could end a fight, sound familiar hm?

"Form II: Makashi
A refinement of blade-against-blade combat, Form II has produced some of the greatest dueling masters the galaxy has ever seen. By the time of Star Wars saga, Form II had pretty much become an archaic curiosity, as modern Jedi had not faced lightsaber-wielding foes in over a thousand years.
Form II is elegant, akin to a refined fencing technique. It even includes formal salutes between combatants. Form II does not focus on attack, but rather economic movement in defensive parries. The intent is to force the opponent to tire himself out. With extreme skill, Form II could be used to hold off multiple opponents, but generally needed to be partnered with more aggressive forms in order to land a blow that could decisively end a conflict."
— Star Wars.Com(Fightsaber: Mastering the Art of Lightsaber Combat)

Not really. The quote is up for interpretation. Shaak Ti being within two tiers of Anakin, Mace or Dooku isn't.

Funny, seems like the quote of Fisto apparently blitzing the Guards in second despite the fact that nothing states that, isn't up for debate, but when Shaak ti doesn't even admit inferiority, it is. How curious.

Rofl. The quote wasn't shortlisting the most skilled beings in the Order.

I suggest you check the quote again, it's listing "greatsword beings" the text explicitly states this.

Right.. because being a blur supersedes Kit's showings, or any Jedi worth half their salt 🙄

An example, nothing more. There’s also this.

http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/18/94/86/38/jedi_s13.jpg
http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/18/94/86/38/jedi_s14.jpg

Casually dodging Omni-directional blaster fire without even a sweat or look of worry whilst TKing a woman is impressive, creating a weave of energy with her blade is also impressive.

Ship feat isn't even relevant to combat or noteworthy.

but moving faster than Clones could perceive - Clones that would go on to Kill a Master that kept up with Grevious speed, Is?

Well, outside of their fatigue, Grievous inherently has every other advantage he brought to that fight over them, so it's questionable if he couldn't have beaten them all fresh. Three of them weren't noteworthy duelists at all, one struggles with Grievous' henchmen...yadayadayada

Except, there's this.

"Four Jedi Knights, all these soldiers and guards," Palpatine went on, gesturing broadly. "Why not wait until Shaak Ti and Stass Allie arrive."
— Star Wars: LoE.

This after the fight on the tram, where Palpatine had seen both Fisto and Mace, yet he threatened and considered the two female Jedi’s to be more than enough to kill Grevious, not Mace or Kit.

Your next argument may very well be. “Oh, but what does Palpatine know? He’s just pretending!”

Well, aside from commending Shaak for her valiant efforts in various battles there is also this.

“Supreme Chancellor Palpatine himself officially commended Shaak Ti for her efforts and notable actions on Dagu, Geonosis and Centares. He grew to trust Shaak Ti and her abilities. Keeping her as part of his inner circle of protectors during the increasing dangers of the Clone Wars”
-- Star Wars: Databanks(Shaak Ti)

Being more aware of her abilities, Palpatine considered her and Stass to be more than enough to beat Grevious. Following along the same lines, Shaak Ti is assigned at protect the Chancellor – who would be a high priority – with only Stass Allie.

"Tiin, Koon, Ki-Adi-Mundi, and some of the others are on their way up the
well," Mace said. "I sent Stass Allie to assist Shaak Ti in guarding Chancellor Palpatine."
— Star Wras: LoE

And let's not pretend being on the larger side of a 5v1 isn't a pretty absurd advantage to have over someone, despite that someone standing in the middle of all of said 5 and outfighting them simultaneously.
Grievous would absolutely annihilate Shaak Ti by herself. The fact she couldn't defeat him with four Jedi aiding her doesn't lend credence to the claim she could do it herself.
Lol. Grievous' "arrogance" wasn't preventing him from fighting as best he could, and he wasn't any clumsier due to having new limbs. Shii-Cho and fatigue were the main advantages.

The Jedi Council dispatched an elite Jedi taskforce—including Council Members Shaak Ti and Ki-Adi Mundi – to Hypori, Barrek having the most the experience with the industrial world, was to take command of the Jedi unit and accompanying clone troopers upon arrival.

The Hypori campaign quickly collapsed into disaster. Orbital mines destroyed all the transport craft, causing them to crash behind enemy lines on Hypor. The factories churned out thousands of battle droids to destroy the survivors of the crash. Many of the clone troopers died in the intial clash, and what few were left were decimated by droid laser fire. The Jedi were trapped – and the situation worsened.

The droid forces on Hypori were commanded by none other than General Grevious himself. He personally lead his battle droids forces to surround the Jedi survivors, and killed Daakman Barrek
— Star Wars: Databanks(Daakman Barrek)

Considering that the entire Jedi team had to be tired out by fighting cannon fodder, I don’t think Grevious could defeat Ti or Ki-Adi(if they were at 100%). The following quote from Labyrinth of Evil, supports this.

"No, no, stop, stop," he yelled, coming to his feet and striding to the middle of the training circle, his arms extended to both sides. When he was certain that he had their attention, he swung to Grievous.
"Power moves served you well on Hypori against Jedi such as Daakman Barrek and Tarr Seir. But I pity you should you have to face off against any of the Council Masters."
— Star Wars: Labyrinth of Evil

I'd love to hear or preferably see them.

Certainly.

Get’s shot, heals herself, gets back up and fights two combatants whilst still recovering from her injury and kills one of them and casts TK like it’s nothing
Jedi: Shaak Ti.

TK a bunch of droids, Destroy a bridge and a number of droids alongside Anakin and Obi-Wan by combining their Telekinetic power, she then proceeds to seal the hole that they made with TK – alone.
Defense Of Kamino Comic.

On neutral ground, the Force's alignment is balanced between both sides of the spectrum, allowing Force Users of any alignment to draw on the Force as an energy source as freely as the environment allows.

On Felucia the dark side was weak while the light was stronger.

To your first point: So Starkiller was using the nexus, then.

Because of Shaak Ti’s presence, after her death Felucia became dark once again.

Care to quote the part in this thread where I say any of my opinions are fact? Also, the useful part from earlier comes in here 🙂

Too bad I said that it was speculation on my part and not fact 😛

She kept them at bay for a bit, sure, but that's all she did outside of the staff portion of the fight. Not sure why briefly holding off fourish MagnaGuards supersedes Kit's relatively extensive and impressive track record.

Of holding them off for an unspecified amount of time? I don’t think so.

Now I'm not sure, tbh, but I think maybe Grievous being there might have been why Fisto wasn't comfortable taking on three MagnaGuards. Call me nuts here, but perhaps Fisto didn't want to fight the three Elites in addition to Grievous, due to Grievous or the trio separately being something of a challenge. Tbh?

Any confirmation that they were elite droids? If that’s the case then I guess Ti fought a bunch of his elite droids on Coruscant. But then again, that’s just speculation now isn’t it?

Being the temple's finest swordmaster would elevate her above Ti, yes. I can't see how that is funny though. Also, Ti not even being mentioned whilst Drallig was directly mentioned as being someone of considerable skill, yet no challenge to Anakin, is telling of her presence being insignificant.

Then I guess Drallig > the entire Temple then. Even Jedi who actually fought Vader like Anya’Kuro and Sha Koon. Nice logic.

A quote that was misread to seem as if he defeated droids seconds, speed which Shaak Ti is more than capable of matching, Comparable TK and An acclaimed and established Master of lightsaber combat in several sources. Shaak Ti is continuously regarded as powerful in both the force and combat and has proven herself time and time again. I consider Fisto powerful, but Shaak Ti is better.

Holy giant wall of text batman! that was long, sorry about that. enjoy reading and rebutting. sayonara.

Oh so about Shaak not being a "priority target"...

She was, Anakin interrogated Jurrok about her location, he was obviously gunning for her as well as Drallig.

Oh yeah, how did I miss this. awesome find Sel 👆

I grow tired of this feminist Shaak Ti shit. Fisto wins and she makes him a sandwich.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I grow tired of this feminist Shaak Ti shit. Fisto wins and she makes him a sandwich.

Is the Xtasy-ILS debate still ongoing or did it just... stop?