Current DC cosmology, what is it? Omniverse or Multiverse?

right, so like i said, people will be able to contest any overarching 'theory' and will fit in what best supports said theory.... evidence you say? look at this thread and the posts in that thread itself. a lot of work, well supported, but.....whatever. [shrug] contradictions have and will happen as they always have. seems pointless to me as it really settles nothing at all. makes for good discussion as i said, but any trying to pass that info off as 'official' needs to have their head examined.

It' a pretty good read from Space Battle,

Originally posted by Golgo13
Shit, did Operator create that thread? It's pretty extensive. Shows a bunch of high abstract beings DC has.

No. I don't have any account on other sites. But the guy did copy/paste many of my posts (word for word, even) which i made here on KMC. Not that i particularly mind, i just find it a bit funny....and weird, i guess.

@VastoLord1234, ill respond to your questions later on, im currently busy and can't engage in extensive debates.

Originally posted by operator616
No. I don't have any account on other sites. But the guy did copy/paste many of my posts (word for word, even) which i made here on KMC. Not that i particularly mind, i just find it a bit funny....and weird, i guess.

@VastoLord1234, ill respond to your questions later on, im currently busy and can't engage in extensive debates.

its why me and golgo thought that spacebattle thread was yours.....
Ofcourse, whenever you're free and able, thanks again

Originally posted by leonidas
right, so like i said, people will be able to contest any overarching 'theory' and will fit in what best supports said theory.... evidence you say? look at this thread and the posts in that thread itself. a lot of work, well supported, but.....whatever. [shrug] contradictions have and will happen as they always have. seems pointless to me as it really settles nothing at all. makes for good discussion as i said, but any trying to pass that info off as 'official' needs to have their head examined.

Well one things fot sure, current DC is either an omniverse of multiple multiverses or a multiverse of infinite universes; whats your pick?

Originally posted by VastoLord1234
Every Reality prior to flashpoint, including the pre-crisis multiverse, are now canonized.

Also, you seem pretty dead-set on what you think current DC cosmology is(ergo you ignoring recent evidence like Morrison's official map of the multiverse), so why did you even create this thread?

On a sidenote, World's Funnest did the same basic thing like 15 years ago--it 'canonized' pre and post-Crisis DC, as well as pretty much every alternate dimension/earth we've ever seen, by having Mxy and Bat-Mite hop-into(and subsequently destroy/recreate) ALL of them.... Yet some of you people are acting like the plot of Convergence is some fresh/cutting-edge concept way ahead of its time. g007_teehee

That's pretty neat, him making a dc cosmics thread. We have a couple of those but it's not all pieced together like that one. This is still the main site for that stuff though with our respect threads. He is def using operators words and what looks like galans scans, and prob other things from here also lol. We need a dominus and kismet thread.

Originally posted by Galan007
Okay, so potentially the pre and post-Crisis multiverses might be brought back into continuity during the story--we already knew that months ago. But acting as though terms/definitions that have been used one time in the history of DC(like "metaverse"😉 are going to play any sort of role in this event is silly, imo. They might, but it's extremely doubtful.

Also, you seem pretty dead-set on what you think current DC cosmology is(ergo you ignoring recent evidence like Morrison's official map of the multiverse), so why did you even create this thread?

On a sidenote, World's Funnest did the same basic thing like [b]15 years ago--it 'canonized' pre and post-Crisis DC, as well as pretty much every alternate dimension/earth we've ever seen, by having Mxy and Bat-Mite hop-into(and subsequently destroy/recreate) ALL of them.... Yet some of you people are acting like the plot of Convergence is some fresh/cutting-edge concept way ahead of its time. g007_teehee [/B]

Potentially? its already confirmed, the first four weeks will be stories about the pre-flashpoint and the pre-crisis multiverses.

Im not saying that terms like metaverse and megaverse are objective, im only saying that current DC consists of more than one multiverse at the very least, this is due to several terminologies used in the new 52, such as terry sloane mentioning a neighboring multiverse or scott continuously using the term omniverse, scott who's also writing convergence stories.

Im not dead-set on anything, im curious thats all, but what i am dead set against, is people using morrisons map to say that current DC is only 52 universes, thats the only thing im dead-set against, since it contradicts everything that has come after. Heck i'd even argue that map is the map of the pre-flashpoint multiverse. Especially when multiversity is basically about pre-flashpoint stories.

I know absolutely nothing about Worlds Funnest, heck im surprised at what you just said; scans for proof?

Originally posted by kevdude
That's pretty neat, him making a dc cosmics thread. We have a couple of those but it's not all pieced together like that one. This is still the main site for that stuff though with our respect threads. He is def using operators words and what looks like galans scans, and prob other things from here also lol. We need a dominus and kismet thread.

Pretty much every internet forum uses killermovies as its source, cause it has the top debaters. Heck Deadliest Fictional Wik and Outskirts Battledome made wikias dedicated to killermovies, explaining how killermovies is the best site for comic fans, and has the most knowledgeable posters.

Even before i joined killermovies, i knew about the top posters like mrmaster, galan, operator etc etc.

I didnt even know there was a DC cosmology thread on KMC, im well aware of mrmasters marvel one. Thats a good thing about the other forums, they're structures are made to be easy, you can access feats 100 pages away simply by linking the comment.

Im sure the guy also explained that he used killermovies as his basis..........what if he's reading this thread right now? 😈

Originally posted by VastoLord1234
Heck i'd even argue that map is the map of the pre-flashpoint multiverse. Especially when multiversity is basically about pre-flashpoint stories.

Originally posted by VastoLord1234
I know absolutely nothing about Worlds Funnest, heck im surprised at what you just said; scans for proof?

And he had already wiped out EVERY numbered dimension in existence earlier in the book:

At the end, he recreated all of it with a snap, and made plans to do the very same thing "next Tuesday":
http://i.imgur.com/edJy9ym.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Z0FNjry.jpg

Yeah that is true. This place is pretty well known and rightfully so. There's a few but their not like mrmasters.

Originally posted by Galan007
Meh, even in the '52-era' there were still infinite universes, as confirmed by Rip Hunter:

Basically, Mxy and Bat-Mite spend the entire issue fighting, whilst hopping through, and subsequently destroying, numerous universes/dimensions(both pre and post-Crisis.) This book reached its crescendo when Mxy became hyper-enraged and destroyed ALL of DC(its pre-Crisis past, its post-Crisis present, its distant future, and every alternate reality in between) in one fell swoop:

And he had already wiped out EVERY numbered dimension in existence earlier in the book:

At the end, he recreated all of it with a snap, and made plans to do the very same thing "next Tuesday":
http://i.imgur.com/edJy9ym.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Z0FNjry.jpg

I dont know about that scan, granted Rip said that, but thats a one time deal, while as the new 52 comics have referenced an infinite number of universes atleast 10 times. Krypton returns (story arc) also showed that time travel creates another universe, which i think is hypertime, if thats what hypertime is.

Wow, that was pretty BA for an OP imp.....lol this is the first im seeing feats like that from mxy, every numbered dimension? i thought theres only 5.

Originally posted by kevdude
Yeah that is true. This place is pretty well known and rightfully so. There's a few but their not like mrmasters.

I guess that spacbattles thread finally did a DC cosmology thread right, though im not sure why no one in KMC has done a DC thread as extensive as mrmasters marvel thread. Im sure Galan and operator alone could accomplish an extensive DC thread if they wanted to.

Originally posted by VastoLord1234
I dont know about that scan, granted Rip said that, but thats a one time deal,

On that note, Hypertime still existed in the '52-era' as well--as confirmed by Skeets:

The comic that panel is from(52 #27) wasn't written by a bunch of no-name hacks, btw, it was written by Johns+Morrison+Rucka+Waid. That said, it implied that there were still infinite universes in DC, even before Rip Hunter explicitly stated as much in the scan I posted above.

Originally posted by VastoLord1234
Wow, that was pretty BA for an OP imp.....lol this is the first im seeing feats like that from mxy, every numbered dimension? i thought theres only 5.

Heck, even back during OWAW, humans were aware of at least "12 1/3" dimensions, as well as the multiverse-proper:

Originally posted by Galan007
Rip Hunter isn't just some random joe who randomly spouts nonsense. He is the chief authority on DC cosmology--his word is about as irrefutable as an in-universe source can get. He is, after all, the character who originally discovered/decoded Hypertime:
http://i.imgur.com/D3exfmY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0y4mkuy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hRlURuy.jpg
...A concept not even the Linear Men could grasp.

On that note, Hypertime still existed in the '52-era' as well--as confirmed by Skeets:

The comic that panel is from(52 #27) wasn't written by a bunch of no-name hacks, btw, it was written by Johns+Morrison+Rucka+Waid. That said, it implied that there were still infinite universes in DC, even before Rip Hunter explicitly stated as much in the scan I posted above.

There are a lot of dimensions in DC. Kid Devil, for example, once traveled to the 52nd dimension:

Heck, even back during OWAW, humans were aware of at least "12 1/3" dimensions, as well as the multiverse-proper:

So even back then DC was still an infinite multiverse due to hypertime? But that doesnt make sense, if the 52 core universes are the NOT the result of hypertime, wouldnt that mean that each of the 52 universes would be subjected to hypertime? wouldnt this lead to 52 multiverses instead?

So 12 1/3 is the maximum DC's dimensions has gone to?

Heres whats funny, most of the time (if not all), the ones who throw around terminologies like hypertime, metaverse, megaverse, omniverse, are the same people who are the top dogs of DC, like lobdell, didio, waid, johns, morrison etc etc, yet those are the same guys who have not even constructed a DC index of terminologies and as a result, write contradictory stories regarding DC's cosmology.

Originally posted by VastoLord1234
So even back then DC was still an infinite multiverse due to hypertime? But that doesnt make sense, if the 52 core universes are the NOT the result of hypertime, wouldnt that mean that each of the 52 universes would be subjected to hypertime? wouldnt this lead to 52 multiverses instead?

And Spectre alluded to a multiverse(and beyond) during the Emperor Joker arc:

There are other examples, but what I've posted should suffice as more than enough proof.

Hypertime merely expanded upon the already present multiverse by canonizing all timelines/universes/dimensions that did, do, or would ever exist(even pre-Crisis ones.) This is pretty much the same concept we'll see in Convergence, by the looks of it.

Originally posted by VastoLord1234
So 12 1/3 is the maximum DC's dimensions has gone to?

Originally posted by VastoLord1234
Heres whats funny, most of the time (if not all), the ones who throw around terminologies like hypertime, metaverse, megaverse, omniverse, are the same people who are the top dogs of DC, like lobdell, didio, waid, johns, morrison etc etc, yet those are the same guys who have not even constructed a DC index of terminologies and as a result, write contradictory stories regarding DC's cosmology.

Originally posted by Galan007
DC never really stopped being a multiverse. Metron himself(another chief authority on DC cosmology) directly referenced the multiverse in JSA #13:

And Spectre alluded to a multiverse(and beyond) during the Emperor Joker arc:

There are other examples, but what I've posted should suffice as more than enough proof.

Hypertime merely expanded upon the already present multiverse by canonizing all timelines/universes/dimensions that did, do, or would ever exist(even pre-Crisis ones.) This is pretty much the same concept we'll see in Convergence, by the looks of it.

No, that's the maximum number that human scientists were aware of at the time. Kid Devil, however, hopped all the way to the 52nd dimension... So we know there were at least 51 other numbered dimensions in pre-Flashpoint DC.

That's comics for ya.

So basically convergence will canonize the definition of hypertime? From DC's website we know that convergence takes place outside space and time, we also know that the current new 52 multiverse possesses infinite universes, and quantum mechanics produces more. We know that the new 52 new gods are retconned, does that mean these pre-flashpoint realities make up they're own multiverse? or is it still apart of one multiverse? (which would still be contradictory)

Appreciate your time and effort with the scans BTW 👆

Originally posted by VastoLord1234
So basically convergence will canonize the definition of hypertime?

Rip then went on to explain the general concept of Hypertime:

Hypertime was so vast/overwhelming, in fact, that Matthew Ryder(a Linear Man who spends his time roaming the timestream) couldn't even handle briefly gazing upon it:

Originally posted by VastoLord1234
does that mean these pre-flashpoint realities make up they're own multiverse? or is it still apart of one multiverse? (which would still be contradictory)

Appreciate your time and effort with the scans BTW 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
Hypertime was essentially the canonization of every universe/dimension/timeline that has, or will, ever exist throughout DC's history(which is what the basis of Convergence seems to be, yes.) Hence why we saw pre and post-Crisis universes, as well as alternate dimensions, in the Hypertime splash-page:

Rip then went on to explain the general concept of Hypertime:

Hypertime was so vast/overwhelming, in fact, that Matthew Ryder(a Linear Man who spends his time roaming the timestream) couldn't even handle briefly gazing upon it:

Pre-Flashpoint DC was a multiverse. Pre-Crisis DC was also a multiverse. If those are brought back, then it means 2 more infinite multiverses will be tacked onto DC's current infinite multiverse(s).

Both multiverses possessed infinite universes, right?
From what i could recall the post crisis multiverse wasnt a complete reboot as the new gods were the same new gods from the pre-crisis multiverse? is that true? and thus WF mxy affected the pre-crisis multiverse as well? wouldnt that mean that the pre-crisis and the post crisis multiverse were one and the same? via hypertime?

I recall you mentioning some character with some madusa mask or something; who re-created the pre-crisis multiverse?

Wouldnt that be contradictory as it would mean both multiverses were seperate? yet they were one?

Originally posted by VastoLord1234
Well one things fot sure, current DC is either an omniverse of multiple multiverses or a multiverse of infinite universes; whats your pick?

😂 that's the kind of pigeon-holing that always comes from looking too closely at these things. from one pov it is purely an issue of semantics. from another, EACH is actually supportably accurate. me, i'd as soon leave it alone and not bother with even trying to formally categorize it--which was my initial point. from a purely outsiders stand point, what is happening (and appears on the verge of happening) is a re-visualizing of the hypertime concept that dc wasted so badly. it was a brilliant concept that was relegated to, essentially, the junk heap and now they are just bringing it back in a shinier package--maybe. what would you consider hypertime? as you can see, coming to a consensus on the issue will be impossible. i do believe that despite the contradictions that it presents, the new map will be dc's OFFICIAL stance though, and that regardless of evidence to the contrary that really is that, imo. but like i said, it does stimulate interesting discussion.