Originally posted by Selenial
Seeing as the Exile managed to predict and counter the movements of an Echani master of combat, perfectly. In fact, Brianna speaks of how the Exile had already mastered the technique subliminally before meeting her, that training would make her far more dangerous. She compared Surik's abilities in precognition to Revan's, and we know how that works out.
Now, is the bolded a plausible comparison?
Sure
Is it substantiated by Brianna's word?
Not particularly
Brianna's never even met him or seen him in combat to actually even begin to know if her comparison is valid, it's mostly speculation on her part
That said, I'm sure Surik has actual feats to back up the comparison, it's just using Brianna's word and passing it off as substance is kind of wanting :maybe
That said, I'm pretty much nitpicking a minor part of a rebuttal for a post that was otherwise a pretty good one
I don't recall anyone comparing Revan's precog to anyone. In fact:
"Only Revan ever demonstrated such a skill in war. And even as he slaughtered us, the Echani still respected him."
―Brianna (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic: The Sith Lords)
Then again I kind of lost interest after the Revan wank was over, but I would like a quote.
If said quote does exist, I argue it is because of her Wound, not actual combat prowess.
Not really the point I was getting at, but yeah I'm curious where it came from too now
It's been years since I played KOTOR2 and all, I just vaguely remember Brianna mentioning Revan
Still a weak point of argument regardless, but its mostly my thing nowadays to point out where an argument can be strengthened.
*shrug*
"Only Revan has ever demonstrated such a skill [...]" "Can you Teach me how to do this?" "You are already doing it [...] If you are doing it without realising it, then training will make you a deadly opponent indeed"
Kinda paraphrasing because writing it all out is hella effort, but yeh, she says that after the third sparring session, at least in my save game. Sure I can find a video on youtube if that's not enough.
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Not really the point I was getting at, but yeah I'm curious where it came from too nowIt's been years since I played KOTOR2 and all, I just vaguely remember Brianna mentioning Revan
Still a weak point of argument regardless, but its mostly my thing nowadays to point out where an argument can be strengthened.
Fair enough, it was a weak point. I guess the point was that Surik has shown precognition against forms of fighting she knows nothing about, enough to astound an actual Echani.
Surely precognition against attacks and forms she has "mastered" would be even easier for her.
Originally posted by Selenial
*shrug*
"Only Revan has ever demonstrated such a skill [...]" "Can you Teach me how to do this?" "You are already doing it [...] If you are doing it without realising it, then training will make you a deadly opponent indeed"Kinda paraphrasing because writing it all out is hella effort, but yeh, she says that after the third sparring session, at least in my save game. Sure I can find a video on youtube if that's not enough.
Originally posted by Selenial
Thought I'd fill in for dear AP and trash Neph for a bit.
Rude.
Originally posted by Selenial
Because there's a ridiculous amount of proof that Meetra > Zannah.
More like there's a lot of beating up featless, hypeless losers which clearly puts her above someone who contended evenly with the Sith'ari.
Originally posted by Selenial
Take out ability to wield the force, in any manner other than bolstering bladework, and yes. Atris and Traya would Trash Zannah, if again they were on Nexuses that drowned out Zannah's ability to use the force and bolster their own.
Ok, sure thing sis. You are totally right, however can Zannah beat those two. I mean Atris is a lightsaber master and she... and...... well she..... ah, uh.... and **** you she doesn't even need anything else. That's totally better than Zannah. As well Traya beating Zannah is so obvious that we don't even need to elaborate. Not because there's f*ckall backing up her abilities or anything. There's a ridiculous amount of proof. She dodged the Handmaidens attacks (in cut content) and she's Arran Kae, obviously and totally officially, and obviously therefore is better than Zannah.
Originally posted by Selenial
I like that you're randomly using Kas'im as the standard now, because **** logic and all that Jazz. And as we've been saying for the past few years, Lightsaber duels do not come down to skill alone.
Skill is the only aspect that Meetra actually rivals Zannah in so you probably shouldn't push that line to much.
Originally posted by Selenial
Meetra is faster,
Hell no.
Originally posted by Selenial
more agile,
Nope.
Originally posted by Selenial
and has a greater stamina than Zannah.
❌
Originally posted by Selenial
And for the love of god stop acting like Kas'im was inferior to Bane, we don't actually know that.
That's true, we totally don't know that at all.
"The Blademaster became desperate. Leaping, spinning, ducking, rolling: he was wild and reckless in his retreat, seeking now only to escape with his life. But he didn't know the Temple like Bane did. Bane kept the routes to the outside cut off, slowly herding his opponent into a dead-end hallway."
oh wait what
Originally posted by Selenial
The fact that Kas'im was simply better with Ataru, a form Bane was unfamiliar with, does not mean Bane was more skilled simply because he didn't know that form and so his loss doesn't count.
Sure, Kas'im becoming utterly desperate and running full steam away doesn't suggest Bane was better at all.
Originally posted by Selenial
In fact, Meetra, just like Kas'im, has an incredible amount of knowledge and styles to use. Should she fail with any form she may switch, should she fail with a single blade, out comes two. She incorporates Echani strikes and general battle precognition into combat, so Zannah's already frankly laughable offense becomes even worse.
I only recall her possessing the one lightsaber in the novel. Could be wrong though. And she can switch forms if she wants, there's no trick she can pull that'll help her here. Echani strikes will only get her hands buzzsawed off, so that'll go well.
Originally posted by Selenial
Seeing as the Exile managed to predict and counter the movements of an Echani master of combat, perfectly. In fact, Brianna speaks of how the Exile had already mastered the technique subliminally before meeting her, that training would make her far more dangerous. She compared Surik's abilities in precognition to Revan's, and we know how that works out.
Man, I must be really foggy in my memories because I don't really that at all. Are you talking about sparring with Brianna? Also lol, no she isn't compared to Revan. 🙄
Originally posted by Selenial
I'm saving this for the next time you try to say you're an unbiased debater 👆*Massive Snip of stuff I already replied to*
It's my unbiased opinion that Bane is the far greater duelist than Vader. Faster, more mobile, comparably skilled and strong, more powerful etc.
Originally posted by Selenial
Zannah's stamina has nothing on Surik's, literally nothing. She tanked through massive gravitational anomalies, on an incredibly potent dark side world, stormed through hordes of Storm beasts that could shatter ribs and kill men in a single hit, a "legion" of Sith assassins, Sion 4 times and then STILL managed to perform well enough in Saber combat to beat an opponent stronger in the force, who was also on a nexus.No but sure, Zannah lasting a semi decent amount of time in a single duel totally compares. 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄
Yes, I know.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Skill is the only aspect that Meetra actually rivals Zannah in so you probably shouldn't push that line to much.
Pretty much the only part of your post I can be bothered to address seeing as I have no investment in this actual debate
By your board's standards?
Surik has far greater showings in strength than Zannah has just by virtue of walking on Malachor V, so... no, skill isn't the only area she "rivals" Zannah by the standards of your board
Now, do you want me to give you an actual number on that? Or would you just go "lalala don't like this" and ignore it if I did :hmm
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Pretty much the only part of your post I can be bothered to address seeing as I have no investment in this actual debateBy your board's standards?
Surik has far greater showings in strength than Zannah has just by virtue of walking on Malachor V, so... no, skill isn't the only area she "rivals" Zannah by the standards of your board
Now, do you want me to give you an actual number on that? Or would you just go "lalala don't like this" and ignore it if I did :hmm
Yeah, I'd ignore you. The surface of the planet isn't that badly affected. Bao'Dur's fricking remote can easily hover around without issues and there were many survivors the the MSG trapped on Malachor (stated in the Kotor CG), who couldn't protect themselves with the force. So normal humans can survive on the planet.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Neph standing strong.
If that's standing strong, then lol.
I'm on my phone so I guess I have to leave it to AP, but I lold that he conveniently ignores that Kas'im whaps out a second blade and pimp slaps bane all over the shop like the peon he is.
Despite that literally being the only part of the fight I referenced.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, I'd ignore you. The surface of the planet isn't that badly affected. Bao'Dur's fricking remote can easily hover around without issues and there were many survivors the the MSG trapped on Malachor (stated in the Kotor CG), who couldn't protect themselves with the force. So normal humans can survive on the planet.
Originally posted by Selenial
If that's standing strong, then lol.I'm on my phone so I guess I have to leave it to AP, but I lold that he conveniently ignores that Kas'im whaps out a second blade and pimp slaps bane all over the shop like the peon he is.
Despite that literally being the only part of the fight I referenced.
Well then you messed up that reference by talking about Ataru instead of Jar'Kai. I pointed out that Bane demonstrably was better than Kas'im without Kas'im pulling out the second saber.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
What? Scores of "powerful" Jedi got corrupted by merely feeling the presence of Malachor V from orbit. 😐
..... Which has nothing to do with strength. 😬
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, I'd ignore you. The surface of the planet isn't that badly affected. Bao'Dur's fricking remote can easily hover around without issues and there were many survivors the the MSG trapped on Malachor (stated in the Kotor CG), who couldn't protect themselves with the force. So normal humans can survive on the planet.
Sure it wasn't
Other than being so ****ing fractured it was turned into 3 seperate planetoids :lmao
That's a feat for remote chuckles, it's propulsion would be that strong. It's not an actual rebuttal, not sure how you can pass it off as one.
Ah, you suffer from the delusion that normal soldiers in star wars aren't minorly super human.
Right, I forgot where I was for a second, my bad :maybe
Originally posted by Nephthys
Well then you messed up that reference by talking about Ataru instead of Jar'Kai. I pointed out that Bane demonstrably was better than Kas'im without Kas'im pulling out the second saber...... Which has nothing to do with strength. 😬
Simply pulling 2 sabers doesn't make it Jar'kai, I thought it was described as Ataru, and the Wookiee certainly makes that distinction.
It has nothing to do with Ataru, Bane was flummoxed by the second saber, not anything to do with forms. Ataru isn't mentioned.
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Sure it wasn'tOther than being so ****ing fractured it was turned into 3 seperate planetoids :lmao
That's a feat for remote chuckles, it's propulsion would be that strong. It's not an actual rebuttal, not sure how you can pass it off as one.
Ah, you suffer from the delusion that normal soldiers in star wars aren't minorly super human.
Right, I forgot where I was for a second, my bad :maybe
You're assuming the MSG was affecting the planet as strongly as when it was first turned on. Which is obviously false since the remote specifically needs to repair and reactivate it, which will destroy the planet. IIRC it was purely Malachor's natural gravity that Meetra experienced. Or else the MSG was achieving very minor results.
Minorly super human doesn't compare to Zannah. Who is fully super human. If a normal person can survive on the planet then Meetra doing so proves nothing.
Originally posted by Nephthys
You're assuming the MSG was affecting the planet as strongly as when it was first turned on. Which is obviously false since the remote specifically needs to repair and reactivate it, which will destroy the planet.
Actually, I was left with the impression it was still active from the dialogue.
It should have drifted apart a long time ago otherwise, it was only fused together to tentatively due to the gravitational anomaly IIRC
IIRC it was purely Malachor's natural gravity that Meetra experienced. Or else the MSG was achieving very minor results.
Nada, Surik even reflects on how hellish the gravity of the planet was in Revan
http://i.imgur.com/uOgxnT6.png
Minorly super human doesn't compare to Zannah. Who is fully super human. If a normal person can survive on the planet then Meetra doing so proves nothing.
I'm aware
Hell, given shit with a significantly weakened Khem Val and Rakghouls from TOR, I sort of figure most of you are better off just ignoring some of the more pithy strength feats in the series and powerscaling off them.
Well, I suppose Carthage will continue to jokingly insist Rakghoul >>> Malgus in jest or some shit, but eh.
