Zenix, no one cares about your views on canon. Instead of wasting your time and lowering your credibility over why games and books are meaningless, try to actually participate and accept how we do things here or expect the casual "lol everyone look at him and laugh." Ignoring C-Canon content because you don't like how it is expressed goes against the forum rules of these boards, and if continued might get you banned.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Zenix, no one cares about your views on canon. Instead of wasting your time and lowering your credibility over why games and books are meaningless, try to actually participate and accept how we do things here or expect the casual "lol everyone look at him and laugh." Ignoring C-Canon content because you don't like how it is expressed goes against the forum rules of these boards, and if continued might get you banned.
My thoughts precisely, sans the egotistical 14 year old way they're presented.
There are multiple reasons why Meetra's portrayal in the Revan Novel don't fit with the original game that don't involve us just saying "nah **** canon m8". Hell, her purely melee comparative feats outstrip Revans own in that novel, including her speed feats and probably even resistance.
Though Ant will of course argue that.
Perhaps you should educate yourself on the characters you're discussing, before stepping into the ring with the big dogs, hmm?
Originally posted by zEniX
Of which hardly any of which was used to write her medium powered character in Revan. The guides all have the same problem you seem to, that they drew from the game, not the writers.
1. She was stated to be a match for one of the greatest warriors of the Empire.
2. She survived in Nathema's environment for a while
3. Her powers worked in Dromund Kaas, a planet strong in the dark side.
4. She outdueled two Imperial Guard individuals simultaneously, an extraordinary display of martial skill and power. (Imperial Guard match well-trained Jedi and Sith in skill and power on average.)
5. She gave the mighty Emperor a pause.
Seriously, her single loss is being blown out of proportion by some people. Nobody have flawless record in the mythos. Nobody.
Revan struggled against some Mandalorians in a battle in Rekkiad. So is he mediocre too?
The novel actually promotes Meetra as a powerful Jedi and an expert swordsman, with feats and accolades.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane had to use the environment to injure her in that manner, pushing her back until she tripped on a grave moments from Force-pwning him. Before that point he was unable to penetrate her defenses in a conventional manner.
However, she lacked stamina and power to go toe-to-toe with Bane for long in martial aspects of combat, therefore her realization that she won't last long in this manner.
Originally posted by Nephthys
And Bane was only the merest fraction slower than he'd once been and a tiny sliver less physically strong.
Bane also had a problem with his left hand.
Originally posted by Nephthys
That was when Zannah was still an apprentice and 10 years before her prime. It's like basing Kotor 2 Meetra on her abilities in the Mandalorian Wars. Also even though Zannah was being overwhelmed, it's still incredibly impressive that she managed to survive as long as she did against the sheer level of speed and power Bane was using against her. Deflecting what appeared to her to be a dozen lightsabers at once is impressive as hell.
Bane's speed feat is really impressive but not an extraordinary one, and it doesn't proves that he can contend with virtually everybody in martial aspects of combat in the mythos. Zannah's ability to duel with Bane is another reminder of Bane's limitations. However, Bane is officially superior duelist then Zannah and both of the statements that I quoted from a novel reiterate the fact that Bane would slaughter Zannah in a strictly martial duel.
I really admire Bane and Zannah at personal capacity but I also see their limitations.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Meetra got chumped by Nyriss. Lets not act as if her resume is flawless here. 😉
Even Luke and Sidious don't have flawless resume.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Medium powered? Based on what?1. She was stated to be a match for one of the greatest warriors of the Empire.
2. She survived in Nathema's environment for a while
3. Her powers worked in Dromund Kaas, a planet strong in the dark side.
4. She outdueled two Imperial Guard individuals simultaneously, an extraordinary display of martial skill and power. (Imperial Guard match well-trained Jedi and Sith in skill and power on average.)
5. She gave the mighty Emperor a pause.
Seriously, her single loss is being blown out of proportion by some people. Nobody have flawless record in the mythos. Nobody.
Revan struggled against some Mandalorians in a battle in Rekkiad. So is he mediocre too?
The novel actually promotes Meetra as a powerful Jedi and an expert swordsman, with feats and accolades.
1. Who hasn't?
2. Surviving Nathema is totally ambiguous and we are given no reason to think this would be a problem for any Jedi or Sith unless perhaps they stayed there for an extended period of time.
3. I honestly cannot think of a Jedi whose power didn't work on a planet strong in the dark side.
4. "Imperial Guard match well-trained Jedi and Sith in skill and power on average." Citation from the book?
5. Once again very ambiguous and most likely stemming from the combination of Revan, Her, and Scouge. Not to mention the emperors paranoia.
More to the point. In Revan, Nyriss > Meetra which somehow means Nyriss >> Zannah if Meetra > Zannah.
Originally posted by zEniX
1. Who hasn't?
Originally posted by zEniX
2. Surviving Nathema is totally ambiguous and we are given no reason to think this would be a problem for any Jedi or Sith unless perhaps they stayed there for an extended period of time.
Life cannot exist in absence of the Force in the mythos. Nathema is the only setting which puts this theory to test and satisfies it.
Originally posted by zEniX
3. I honestly cannot think of a Jedi whose power didn't work on a planet strong in the dark side.
In-fact, Jedi of the Legacy era experienced significant problems in Dromund Kaas while calling upon the Force to perform actions on this planet.
Meetra proved to be an exception to norm in matters of calling upon the Force even in places strong in the dark side. She somehow attuned herself for this purpose from her experiences, but this is an impressive adaptation for a Jedi.
THE INSTANT THE BLUE-BLADED lightsaber had materialized in the human female's hand, Scourge realized she was a Jedi. And he could only think of one reason a Jedi would come to Dromund Kaas in search of him—she was here to rescue Revan.
He was impressed with how easily she had dismantled Murtog and his handpicked team. He could feel her channeling the Force, yet it was somehow different from what he had felt when he battled other Sith.
She wasn't afraid to kill, but he sensed she took no real pleasure in it. Instead of feeding off her anger and hate, it was as if she kept her emotions at arm's length so the Force could flow through her unhindered.
Part of him wanted to leap into the fray: battling this Jedi would be a true test of his skills. He didn’t know which of them would prove the stronger, but he was intrigued by the challenge. Yet another part of him knew she represented something far more significant than a worthy foe.
Taken from (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)
Originally posted by zEniX
4. "Imperial Guard match well-trained Jedi and Sith in skill and power on average." Citation from the book?
As an example, an Imperial Guard individual tanked Revan's telekinetic power by virtue of his connection with Emperor. Sounds unbelievable but this is the reality.
Also:
The ultimate non-Force sensitive fighters in the Empire serve the Emperor and the Emperor alone. Although most citizens know them as protectors of the Sith Academy on Korriban and the sanctum of the Citadel on Dromund Kaas, the guardsmen's mandate takes them wherever the Emperor requires. Even the Dark Council has neither control nor oversight of the guard's activities. Clad in blood-red robes and armor, Imperial Guardsmen serve for life. Chosen for duty and initiated through deadly tests and traditions, those too old for active duty become instructors for the next generation until their skills deteriorate to the point where they are inevitably slain by a new recruit during training. Fanatic in loyalty and unmatched in martial skill, even a lone Imperial Guard is a formidable opponent capable of standing toe-to-toe with a Jedi… or a Sith, should the occasion arise.
Taken from (Star Wars: The Old Republic)
Originally posted by zEniX
5. Once again very ambiguous and most likely stemming from the combination of Revan, Her, and Scouge. Not to mention the emperors paranoia.
Originally posted by zEniX
More to the point. In Revan, Nyriss > Meetra which somehow means Nyriss >> Zannah if Meetra > Zannah.
"It is not that ambiguous. Nathema is a setting completely devoid of the Force energy. A Force-user experiences Sever Force level stresses on this setting and enduring such level of stress for even an hour is big deal.
Life cannot exist in absence of the Force in the mythos. Nathema is the only setting which puts this theory to test and satisfies it."
That isn't to say that surviving it is a feat of power. In the complete absence of the force your power in it is irrelevant.
Revan, Nyriss > Meetra which somehow means Nyriss >> Zannah if Meetra > Zannah.
Which if we follow that logic and assume that
Luke > Revan and lets say Revan is 95% of Luke.
Revan > Nyriss with Nyriss at say 80% of Revan.
Nyriss > Meetra and say Meetra is 80% of Nyriss since she and Scourge together were inferior to her.
Then we say that
Meetra > Zannah with Zannah at 90% of Meetra
Then we are left with
Luke > Zannah with Zannah at only 54.72% of Luke.
Which when you consider that for example say Saba, Kyp, or Corran, are at least 75% of Luke in FOTJ would curb stomp Zannah and Bane.
Just realize that the numbers I put in would indicate Luke could basically take on 2 of Zannah and 2 of Bane at the same time and still win. If you think that's valid then cool, I do not. (The reason is the numbers i used for Nyriss vs. Meetra and Scourge. Meaning that basically 100 vs. 2*80 is a win for the 100 without a question)
As far as FOTJ Luke > Revan. Luke like Anakin has the greatest natural force potential of any Sith or Jedi as stated by Lucas. So it would only come down to training with Revan starting at a disadvantage.
If however we instead say that
Zannah > Meetra with Meetra at 90% of Zannah
Then we can ignore Nyriss vs. Meetra and Scourge.
If we do assume that then
Luke > Revan and lets say Revan is 95% of Luke.
Revan > Nyriss with Nyriss at say 80% of Revan.
Nyriss > Zannah with Zannah 90% of Nyriss (I don't buy this equal power at least imo but w/e)
Then we are left with
Luke > Zannah with Zannah at only 68.4% of Luke.
Which still means Saba, Kyp, or Corran, would beat Bane and Zannah (which I don't buy) but not by much.
And Luke would still Curb Stomp Bane and Zannah which means Stigma is happy although personally I don't buy Luke curb stomping both of them together, winning maybe but not that.