Interesting Presidential Trip

Originally posted by Robtard
So you'd rather have Osama alive?

Impossible to know if killing Osama did anything to save American lives or American infrastructure. It wasn't a very Christian thing to do, obviously.

Personally.......askdflaksdjfa;lsdjfasd (<----This is frustration...I have always had a tough time with this one).

I dunno. This is a tough moral decision and I'm glad I am not Obama and had to make that choice. The irritated and "I want justice" part of me says it should have happened far sooner. The part that says, "you shouldn't kill people" says what we did was probably morally wrong.

Let's just conclude that my feelings are definitely not hurt that Osama is dead. It may be safer for American interests that he is dead, too, from a pragmatic perspective. We can't know that he retired from his terrorism, for sure (the opposite of that is true, as well: we can't know if he continued his terrorism or whether or not he would actually act on those).

Originally posted by Robtard
99.9999999% was not negotiable and you really can't believe that 35% of Christians don't ever lie, like never ever. This is also just one of many "not like Christ" acts to choose from.

You're either mistaken, didn't read my post and understand it, or just ribbing me.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and requote myself:

"Really, the only thing required to be a Christian (other than obvious rites) are trying to be like Christ. Genuinely trying to be."

In Christianity, one of the very basic and pervasive beliefs across almost all Christian religions is the notion that humans are flawed, imperfect, and WILL sin. The difference between the person who says "I am a Christian" and the person that is actually a Christian is the person that is trying to be a Christian. Emphasis on "genuinely trying."* If you're an intelligent person, know the Christian tenants and dogma, and knowingly transgress them, you are not really a Christian, are you? Since the New Testament specifically addresses a person doing this, it's not really a point of dogmatic debate and we don't need to discuss it. Does that make sense?

*In most Christian religions, how genuine a person is seen as a Judgement that comes from God. A person can be a Christian and put forth a tiny amount of effort towards being a "good Christian." Maybe that's enough? Maybe it's not? We don't know. All "we" know is that we have to genuinely try because God will Judge the "content of our heart" and knows how genuine we were trying. This System of Judgement allows for a much more merciful Judgement for a person who was born into a violent Gangster family vs. one born in a very stable and wealthy Christian family (the supposition is that the latter will receive a harsher Judgement).

Killing Osama helped American morale and optimism that maybe the War on Terror isn't a massive waste. Could you imagine how Americans would feel if ISIS was running around and meanwhile we haven't even killed Osama yet?

To DDM,

How do you know Obama isn't "genuinely trying"?

Bush has said that God speaks to him and guides him in his decision making. Granted, while I don't think that is literally happening, Bush may very well actually believe it as irrefutable fact

Originally posted by Robtard
To DDM,

How do you know Obama isn't "genuinely trying"?

I can never know. This is why it also says not to judge. However, I can judge him based off of his immoral decisions and lies which show he is directly contradicing his professed Christian faith. 🙂

In fact, it requires no human to assess this. We can write a program to check the truth of data and spit out a result.

For example:

Is Gitmo a Christian institution (turning the other cheek, forgiving liberally, etc.)? Did Obama, as one of his often repeated campaign promises, state that he would close Gitmo?

Originally posted by Robtard
Bush has said that God speaks to him and guides him in his decision making. Granted, while I don't think that is literally happening, Bush may very well actually believe it as irrefutable fact

So this meter stick cannot be applied to Obama but it can to Bush?

Bush...the murder of tens of thousands of Iraqi people who lied to get an unjust war started? That guy? Would not Bush be more culpable since he made it clear that he was even more devote?

Which is my point, you can say "has done unchristian acts", but saying "no, he's not a Christian" as fact is faulty

Not what I was saying or the point. The point: Bush is no more or less Christian than Obama. They both say they are, but have acts that contradict that, but we can't see into their "hearts" and minds. Bush says he was guided by God, I for one can't say he genuinely believes that or is knowingly lying

edit: Personally, I edge towards Bush actually believing that God speaks (spoke?) to him, cos he always came off as a bit of a nutter

So it's ok to believe in God however it's crazy talk to think he can talk to humans.

Even though you didn't have a question mark, it seems like you were asking the question, so I'll answer it just in case.

Yes, it's okay to have faith in a deity, it's not okay to hear non existent voices in your head telling you to do things. See: David Berkowitz

Can you just tell me who he is?

Son of Sam serial killer. Murdered people because his dog spoke to him and told him to

Originally posted by Robtard
Which is my point, you can say "has done unchristian acts", but saying "no, he's not a Christian" as fact is faulty

But that point is wrong. He professes Christianity to please public opinion but all of his actions say the opposite. It is more likely he is not than is. You're not that naive.

It's like....you're appealing to the 1% just to be right because you hate the idea that one of the most important "good" things about Obama be true because there's hardly anything left "good" about him. Just fess up to the other 99% of the pile of shit instead of holding onto that tiny hope. He shit on your hope. Don't pretend he's a Christian.

Originally posted by Robtard
Not what I was saying or the point. The point: Bush is no more or less Christian than Obama. They both say they are, but have acts that contradict that, but we can't see into their "hearts" and minds. Bush says he was guided by God, I for one can't say he genuinely believes that or is knowingly lying

Ummm...

You're wrong on the most fundamental level possible. There's literally no way for you to be more wrong about the point you're trying to make. Seriously. I've already addressed, why, as well. But if you would like for me to restate it: it's right there in what Christians call their "holy writ."

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

http://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/7.htm

If you say, "I'm a Christian" and then violate the fundamentals of Christian teachings, unrepentingly, you're not a Christian.

I'm a Raiders fan. I never go to their games, I have never watched any of their games, I own nothing from them, I know nobody from that team, I actively cheer for teams that play against them, I do not associate with raiders fans, and I even donate money to anti-Raiders groups! But, dammit, I'm a Raiders fan! Why won't you take my word for it? Man, come on! Take my word for it...

Say what you will about Christians, but the fundamentals of the belief system prevents you from falsely claiming to be a follower of Christ. And why is that? Oh, there are holy writings for that, too:

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

http://biblehub.com/kjv/james/2.htm

Congratulations, you've placed Obama on the same level as demons.

Originally posted by Robtard
edit: Personally, I edge towards Bush actually believing that God speaks (spoke?) to him, cos he always came off as a bit of a nutter

And I personally believe he was a liar...cause...you know...he was factually a liar. Why would Bush be any different from Obama? Bush played the devote Christian role better than Obama, however. He actually went to some of the Raiders' games. 🙂

Bush said he is a Christian, and performed actions just as if not even more unethical than Obama. I don't think ethics can be used to measure piety.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Bush said he is a Christian, and performed actions just as if not even more unethical than Obama. I don't think ethics can be used to measure piety.

I posted a Christian scripture that supports that notion.

Edit - As fact, what you state in your post is pretty much the summary of Jesus' complaints against the Sadducees and Pharisees.

Originally posted by dadudemon
But that point is wrong. He professes Christianity to please public opinion but all of his actions say the opposite. It is more likely he is not than is. You're not that naive.

It's like....you're appealing to the 1% just to be right because you hate the idea that one of the most important "good" things about Obama be true because there's hardly anything left "good" about him. Just fess up to the other 99% of the pile of shit instead of holding onto that tiny hope. He shit on your hope. Don't pretend he's a Christian.

Ummm...

You're wrong on the most fundamental level possible. There's literally no way for you to be more wrong about the point you're trying to make. Seriously. I've already addressed, why, as well. But if you would like for me to restate it: it's right there in what Christians call their "holy writ."

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

http://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/7.htm

If you say, "I'm a Christian" and then violate the fundamentals of Christian teachings, unrepentingly, you're not a Christian.

I'm a Raiders fan. I never go to their games, I have never watched any of their games, I own nothing from them, I know nobody from that team, I actively cheer for teams that play against them, I do not associate with raiders fans, and I even donate money to anti-Raiders groups! But, dammit, I'm a Raiders fan! Why won't you take my word for it? Man, come on! Take my word for it...

Say what you will about Christians, but the fundamentals of the belief system prevents you from falsely claiming to be a follower of Christ. And why is that? Oh, there are holy writings for that, too:

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

http://biblehub.com/kjv/james/2.htm

Congratulations, you've placed Obama on the same level as demons.

And I personally believe he was a liar...cause...you know...he was factually a liar. Why would Bush be any different from Obama? Bush played the devote Christian role better than Obama, however. He actually went to some of the Raiders' games. 🙂

Everything you've said that didn't agree with my assessment and points is factually wrong and I see no reason to continue going in circles. We'll just have to agree to disagree

Originally posted by Robtard
Everything you've said that didn't agree with my assessment and points is factually wrong and I see no reason to continue going in circles. We'll just have to agree to disagree

haermm

Okay, I concede the point. You were right.

Couldn't be arsed reading through 7 pages of replies to see if anyone had mentioned it but John Kerry visited France in the week after the attacks so the opening rant is simply untrue.

Originally posted by jaden101
Couldn't be arsed reading through 7 pages of replies to see if anyone had mentioned it but John Kerry visited France in the week after the attacks so the opening rant is simply untrue.

Wait a minute...you have to be wrong. John Kerry is not in the Obama Administration, is he?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
...none of Obama Administration...

So the question is, is John Kerry part of the Obama Administration?

John Kerry - 68th United States Secretary of State

Oooooh kay. Looks like Jaden is right. The ****ing Scot is right.

Edit - For those who may be wondering why Jaden is right, Cabinet (Google "Cabinet of the United States". You may find some presidential animal crackers) positions (Such as Secretary of State) are appointed by the President and approved by Congress.

Originally posted by dadudemon
haermm

Okay, I concede the point. You were right.

👆

What happened to you Rob.

You used to be such a jovial young man.

Bearing the weight of the universe on one's shoulders will do that

Originally posted by jaden101
Couldn't be arsed reading through 7 pages of replies to see if anyone had mentioned it but John Kerry visited France in the week after the attacks so the opening rant is simply untrue.

Lol, he didn't go to the walk for freedom event..