Chris Avellone's thoughts on Revan vs Darth Traya & Meetra Surik

You really need to stop quoting me and talking if you aren't going to speak English. Great language, English. As someone from France, maybe you should find it's origins interesting enough to learn it

Originally posted by Selenial
I don't know, looking at it I could probably agree to this. If mind sets came into it, which it looks like they do.

I simply say that because Traya wouldn't use Drain, because like Avellone says, Nihilus was the only one willing to accept the consequences of drain. Beyond that, her powers lie mostly in sense and control, which would allow her to survive but not press an offensive on Revan. Surik is far too much the stalwart Jedi to abuse whatever force powers she possesses, other than her bolstering effects. While she'd beat Revan in sabers, he'd probably take her out with the force first.

And to be honest, once one's taken out, even if the other is at an advantage, it's pretty much over.

So yeh, with their "morals on" I'd see Revan taking this, if only barely.

Always so hostile over the language thing, geez.

For good reason. This dude is wasting text.

You're wasting all of our letters.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Mr. Drew once disclosed to me in an email that Malak prioritized martial talents but Revan prioritized developing new powers and techniques. Essentially, Revan had been an innovator in the matters of manipulating the Force..

Drew saying that is linked to HK-47 saying the below, I believe:

"Revan said that many Jedi have the capability to form connections to life around them, although few of them realized the extent to which this is possible. I believe my Master speculated that many Jedi did not fully form such connections because of their discipline, because they never opened their lives to the passions around them." ―HK-47 (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords)

Originally posted by Selenial
I don't know, looking at it I could probably agree to this. If mind sets came into it, which it looks like they do.

I simply say that because Traya wouldn't use Drain, because like Avellone says, Nihilus was the only one willing to accept the consequences of drain. Beyond that, her powers lie mostly in sense and control, which would allow her to survive but not press an offensive on Revan. Surik is far too much the stalwart Jedi to abuse whatever force powers she possesses, other than her bolstering effects. While she'd beat Revan in sabers, he'd probably take her out with the force first.

And to be honest, once one's taken out, even if the other is at an advantage, it's pretty much over.

So yeh, with their "morals on" I'd see Revan taking this, if only barely.

In a state of bloodlust, in the game itself, she used it on the remaining council as something of an ironic punishment for them

She has no qualms with using the technique so much as her execution of it isn't as strong as Nihilus' due to lacking the psychological profile to delve as deeply into it as that walking void

Avellone's word only noted that due to her psychology (which is awesome, since the unvoiced implication is that she didn't lack the power, just the mindset) she wouldn't use a drain on the level Nihilus could, not that she wouldn't use the technique at all

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Besides maybe Neph or Selinial, I think most of us already knew all of this would be the result of this.

Shows that Revan would be capable of defending or somehow avoiding drain though which is nice.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
(which is awesome, since the unvoiced implication is that she didn't lack the power, just the mindset)

Nah. He says there are two reasons. First because of her personality as you pointed out. But the second is because she isn't a force wound.

That, or his reserves of force energy are too high for Traya to drain instantly

Which... isn't that really the only way to resist it to start with?

Watching the clip where Qel-Droma explains it to Anakin for resisting the dark reaper, it basically sounds like Qel-Droma could resist this shit by drawing on the living force/force nexii

Been a while though, so I don't really remember.

Either way it isn't the insta win some people claim it is.

Originally posted by ares834
Nah. He says there are two reasons. First because of her personality as you pointed out. But the second is because she isn't a force wound.

I sort of interpreted that as psychological too

Given the psychic backlash of Malachor was extreme enough to create force wounds in the first place IIRC

Though this could be the case too :hmm

Originally posted by ares834
Either way it isn't the insta win some people claim it is.

If it were Krayt would have been leaving Luke and Abeloth husks and all :maybe

The technique has always possessed a limit in rate of consumption

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
If it were Krayt would have been leaving Luke and Abeloth husks and all :maybe

The technique has always possessed a limit in rate of consumption

And certain members would state that Krayt was using a different version of drain.

I'd agree though.

And their evidence is?

Avellone has gone as far as stating the technique they use in KOTOR2 is the same as the ancient sith's IIRC (I've heard as much anyway)

What extra material exists that establishes the version is different other than "I say so"? :hmm

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You really need to stop quoting me and talking if you aren't going to speak English. Great language, English. As someone from France, maybe you should find it's origins interesting enough to learn it

Whatever you say. A W is a W.

I studdy this in 5° but that's all...

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
In a state of bloodlust, in the game itself, she used it on the remaining council as something of an ironic punishment for them

She has no qualms with using the technique so much as her execution of it isn't as strong as Nihilus' due to lacking the psychological profile to delve as deeply into it as that walking void

Avellone's word only noted that due to her psychology (which is awesome, since the unvoiced implication is that she didn't lack the power, just the mindset) she wouldn't use a drain on the level Nihilus could, not that she wouldn't use the technique at all

Revan is a cool head but he can go really emotional.... And HK-47 reveal that's his power.... Revan seam to play his rôle at 150% when have a rôle to playin his master plan... The confrontation with the emperor, the fight with mandalore the ultimate, the first time he embrace the cause of the dead mandalorian warrior, remember when he found his mask..... When he lead his army he already know than he's gonna to became a dark lord, he already sacrifice his soldier at malachor V because he know than some of them will cause him trouble in the future.. But when he go on the battle field he is the savior of the republic...
He have control of his mind set....

The true master of the Dark side control their emotion and use them.... This is what I believe, Look at malgus he is quite a calm when he is not fighting....
But he can go bersek....

I think than the same for Darth Traya.... She have control of her mindset...

Nihilus is a beast most of his power came from his emotion, he is no longer under control, he act by instinct, when he feel hungry he became bersek raging, he granted his will power, rage allow him to destroy and also feed on the echoes of destruction....

So many quotes point to the triumvirate drain being different :/

Especially the line "They are symptomatic of the wound in the force"

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
And their evidence is?

Dude, iirc you haven't even played Kotor 2 nor have you read Legacy so you can't really comment. The two are obviously different.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Avellone has gone as far as stating the technique they use in KOTOR2 is the same as the ancient sith's IIRC (I've heard as much anyway)

The Ancient Sith knew of the technique but never used it, because the technique turns you into a ravening monster.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Considering this has nothing to do with the reasons given on why Revan would win, this isn't relevant. The point was Revan can outplay, outmaneuver, and overpower Kreia or the Exile before that would even matter. No one has ever thought Kreia was a match for Revan in terms of power or ability, which is what was brought up. And while I'd love to get into this debate about Force Drain, again, it's not relevant to this thread.

Revan can defeat Traya because he have adequate raw power and command of the Force to counter her powers, and he is also likely to outsmart her.

But it is important to realize the fact that tactics (alone) are not going to make much difference in a confrontation.

As an analogy: Mara Jade Skywalker fought Darth Caedus on her terms and in a setting of her choice, and still lost. Caedus ended-up badly wounded in this confrontation because of his foolishness (lack of strategy) and overconfidence.

This statement from Mr. Chris is very telling:

"Revan was a master strategist as well as an extremely powerful Force wielder."

Mr. Chris is absolutely correct. Power, Command of the Force, and Tactics - all are important factors that influence the outcome of a confrontation.

Force Drain powers are not insta-win applications. They may swiftly destroy some individuals but super-strong individuals with excellent defensive capabilities are a different story.

Revan was an absolute master of defensive aspects of the Force with command of biological injury healing techniques, poison resistance techniques, advanced Tutaminis abilities, and advanced shielding techniques such as Protection Bubbles.

Revan likely knows how to defend against Force Drain powers which is not unusual as apparent from the example of Ulic-Qel Droma who had knowledge of countermeasures against such powers.

In-fact, Revan himself have ample command of Force Drain powers and can counter-drain opponents to replenish his energies, should the need arise. This is how Revan prevented his demise during the span of his extremely lengthy imprisonment and torture experiences from Emperor Vitiate in the maelstrom facility.