Chris Avellone's thoughts on Revan vs Darth Traya & Meetra Surik

Originally posted by Selenial
I don't know, looking at it I could probably agree to this. If mind sets came into it, which it looks like they do.

I simply say that because Traya wouldn't use Drain, because like Avellone says, Nihilus was the only one willing to accept the consequences of drain. Beyond that, her powers lie mostly in sense and control, which would allow her to survive but not press an offensive on Revan. Surik is far too much the stalwart Jedi to abuse whatever force powers she possesses, other than her bolstering effects. While she'd beat Revan in sabers, he'd probably take her out with the force first.

And to be honest, once one's taken out, even if the other is at an advantage, it's pretty much over.

So yeh, with their "morals on" I'd see Revan taking this, if only barely.

Mr. Chris have stated that Revan would find Traya easier opponent to tackle then Meetra Surik. However, he did assert that Revan may have to strategize to some extent to defeat a Strike Team of Traya and Meetra Surik, should this confrontation hypothetically occur. This makes sense.

Mr. Chris stated that both Traya and Meetra Surik have shortcomings which Revan can exploit. On the contrary, Revan does not have shortcomings.

As for the Force Drain powers related argument, Mr. Chris asserted that Traya was not willing to become another Nihilus. He didn't assert that Traya is not willing to Force Drain powers at all. Mr. Chris asserted that Traya is not likely to push boundaries with such powers like Nihilus or she would risk becoming like him in the process.

Hence why he got his face melted off by the Emperor. No shortcomings indeed.

Avellon is the third biggest Revan fanboy I've ever seen.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Hence why he got his face melted off by the Emperor. No shortcomings indeed.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You do realize how powerful Emperor is, right?

It's still a shortcoming. Plus there's the clear tactical idiocy of Revan's plan for taking Vitiate out to consider.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Where have Mr. Chris stated that morals would come into play?

Mr. Chris have stated that Revan would find Traya easier opponent to tackle then Meetra Surik. However, he did assert that Revan may have to strategize to some extent to defeat a Strike Team of Traya and Meetra Surik, should this confrontation hypothetically occur. This makes sense.

Mr. Chris stated that both Traya and Meetra Surik have shortcomings which Revan can exploit. On the contrary, Revan does not have shortcomings.

As for the Force Drain powers related argument, Mr. Chris asserted that Traya was not willing to become another Nihilus. He didn't assert that Traya is not willing to Force Drain powers at all. Mr. Chris asserted that Traya is not likely to push boundaries with such powers like Nihilus or she would risk becoming like him in the process.

I can't reply to this, because I can't stop laughing at "Mr. Chris"...

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Avellon is the third biggest Revan fanboy I've ever seen.

Revan is commonly envisioned and promoted as a super-strong Force-user by many Star Wars authors. This is his official promotional element; he is the Yoda's equivalent for the Old Republic era.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Oh yes, lets bash another author for talking highly about Revan because this is now a sin.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It's still a shortcoming. Plus there's the clear tactical idiocy of Revan's plan for taking Vitiate out to consider.

1. Revan executed his plan to assassinate Emperor Vitiate in exceptional manner. Unfortunately, Scourge betrayed him during a defining moment because of his cowardice. Revan's tactical brilliance cannot be faulted for this betrayal.

You could say that it was a mistake to trust a Sith Lord but HoT did the same and outcome was positive. Difference is that Scourge showed courage when another opportunity knocked on the door.

2. That is not a shortcoming. Emperor Vitiate is simply too powerful for any Jedi, Sith or Grey to contend with. Revan do not have significant shortcomings at all, he is very well-rounded.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Go ahead and point out where I said this. I'll wait.

Avellon is the third biggest Revan fanboy I've ever seen.

I never said Avellone was wrong for being a Revan fanboy, as I'm a pretty big fan of Revan myself, and more so about hyping him up, none of which I implied was a "sin."

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dude, iirc you haven't even played Kotor 2 nor have you read Legacy so you can't really comment. The two are obviously different.

First?

I played the vanilla game to death back when it first came out, irritating as **** bugs and all

Light or Dark, I played just about every class combination :lmao

Second?

Are you really arguing from a basis of me lacking expertise? So what if I haven't read legacy? Nut up and post some evidence to support your position.

That's kind of how debate works

Drop the fallacious nonsense, are you a ****ing politician now? :maybe

The Ancient Sith knew of the technique but never used it, because the technique turns you into a ravening monster.

Prove it

This can all end REALLY QUICKLY if you actually post some evidence to support your claims

All I'm seeing is "because I say so"

Infested by trolls or not?

You're on a debate forum, burden of proof is on you to show me the difference is there conclusively.

Originally posted by Selenial
So many quotes point to the triumvirate drain being different :/

Especially the line "They are symptomatic of the wound in the force"

Then post them

There's no rush to do so, but get around to it eventually

Though, again, different or not?

It's a red herring argument

The limit of something like drains force/ki/life force for an attack will always be limited by how fast it can strip all that power away

Just because the limit isn't shown in the game? Well sucks for you, because without further feats, you can't establish the limit as being higher than shown

Unless speculative bullshit is seen as proper evidence here?

Then by all means, indulge

I'll just sit back and chuckle at the comedy :maybe

Avellone himself said it was a form of drain the Ancient Sith refused to use because they knew the drawbacks of it. It's not that they couldn't use it, they just refused to.

That so?

Where can I find the quote?

That'd be pretty convincing and conclusive evidence here

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
First?

I played the vanilla game to death back when it first came out, irritating as **** bugs and all

Light or Dark, I played just about every class combination :lmao

Second?

Are you really arguing from a basis of me lacking expertise? So what if I haven't read legacy? Nut up and post some evidence to support your position.

That's kind of how debate works

Drop the fallacious nonsense, are you a ****ing politician now? :maybe

Then how is it that you don't know the properties of the Kotor 2 technique, which isn't even known to be a drain for certain? It robs the user of their identity and creates a crippling addiction to draining energy. Which Krayt didn't suffer from. It also leaves absences in the Force, which Krayt hasn't ever done. Nor has he demonstrated the numerous other secondary effects of the technique that are shown in Kotor 2. There's also no way for him to have learned the technique.

And my point was that if you haven't read the descriptions of Krayt's drain or anything about him you can't accurately comment on whether his drain is the same as Nihilus'. Especially when it comes to this technique, that radically affects its wielder in ways that are readily apparent and make things pretty ****ing easy to be distinguished between. If you actually know what you're talking about, of course.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Prove it

This can all end REALLY QUICKLY if you actually post some evidence to support your claims

All I'm seeing is "because I say so"

Infested by trolls or not?

You're on a debate forum, burden of proof is on you to show me the difference is there conclusively.

As powerful as Nihilus’ ability is in the short term, the drawback is that it robs the user of almost identity but hunger, which is why is never employed by the Sith Lords of old... who had no wish to sublimate their identities for any reason. - Mr Chris.

Also, you really shouldn't assume I want to debate you just because I disagreed with you. If I could have been bothered to post tons of proof I would have the first time.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Avellone himself said it was a form of drain the Ancient Sith refused to use because they knew the drawbacks of it. It's not that they couldn't use it, they just refused to.

Originally posted by Nephthys

As powerful as Nihilus’ ability is in the short term, the drawback is that it robs the user of almost identity but hunger, which is why is never employed by the Sith Lords of old... who had no wish to sublimate their identities for any reason. - Mr Chris.

Was that so hard to post?

Also, you really shouldn't assume I want to debate you just because I disagreed with you. If I could have been bothered to post tons of proof I would have the first time.

Its wrong of me to assume, in a thread with a debate going, where you interjected on the topic, that you wanted to debate?

News to me

I can appreciate apathy and laziness, but this comment is silly

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Neph, you are a smart person and have history of making good judgments and arguments. However, you are not making iota of sense here.

1. Revan executed his plan to assassinate Emperor Vitiate in exceptional manner. Unfortunately, Scourge betrayed him during a defining moment because of his cowardice. Revan's tactical brilliance cannot be faulted for this betrayal.

You could say that it was a mistake to trust a Sith Lord but HoT did the same and outcome was positive. Difference is that Scourge showed courage when another opportunity knocked on the door.

2. That is not a shortcoming. Emperor Vitiate is simply too powerful for any Jedi, Sith or Grey to contend with. Revan do not have significant shortcomings at all, he is very well-rounded.

Legend, the definition of a shortcoming is to demonstrate an imperfection or to fail to meet a certain standard. So Revan definitely did demonstrate a shortcoming by coming up short against the Emperor.

Revan's plan was legitimately shit though. He just ran in there and hoped that they'd be able to beat him, without any kind of strategy or tactical advantage. Pure idiocy.

@Neph

That assertion of Mr. Chris have been overruled by SWTOR content: developments in the Nathema ritual.