Ukraine

Started by |King Joker|4 pages

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The new ceasefire deal is even less convincing than the original one because it's less comprehensive and more tenuous this time around. By saying "the ceasefire line will be whatever the frontline is as of Saturday night," the Russians are essentially promising that the Separatists will engage in an all-out blitz to seize as much ground as possible by that time.
Oh, definitely. But maybe Sunday and forward there will be some peace and Ukraine can get its shit together military-wise since the rebels will be off their ass for (hopefully) a good amount of time.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
YouTube video

I haven't really played RA3. Oh man, now that's what I call irony.

Damn. http://news.yahoo.com/fifty-tanks-40-missile-systems-crossed-russia-east-114255433.html

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Damn. http://news.yahoo.com/fifty-tanks-40-missile-systems-crossed-russia-east-114255433.html

Hah, and those tools really thought they could negotiate with Putin.

Re: Ukraine

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Should the United States and/or NATO start giving lethal arms to the Ukranian military to help fight against the pro-Russian separatists that are slowly but surely gaining ground in eastern Ukraine? Do you think that would help the situation there or just worsen it? DISCUSS, PEOPLE!

1: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/opinion/europe-leaders-debate-aid-to-ukraine-but-not-russias-transgressions.html?_r=0
2: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/02/09/384943451/ukraine-likely-to-top-obama-merkel-talks-agenda
3: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/02/10/fighting-in-eastern-ukraine-intensifies-ahead-planned-peace-summit/


Giving lethal weapons to pro-ukranian side would imply that pro-russian side is bad but these "pro-russian separatists" are citizens like anyone else. The problem started when the government was overthrown, many people didn't want it. It's a civil war.

I don't believe that this war will end after the agreement.

Russia is "putin" themselves out of line

Originally posted by dadudemon
*profiteers

I never do this (correct spelling/grammar nazi bullshit) but this is one word I used to mess up for ages until someone corrected me.

You're right, I actually knew that word but it didn't come to my head when I was posting. Thanks for the correction 👆

Re: Re: Ukraine

Originally posted by Arhael
Giving lethal weapons to pro-ukranian side would imply that pro-russian side is bad but these "pro-russian separatists" are citizens like anyone else. The problem started when the government was overthrown, many people didn't want it. It's a civil war.
They're also Russian soldiers and Ukrainian soldiers who defected. And as far as NATO's concerned it's basically Russia violating Ukraine's sovereignty by aiding the rebels and sending some of their military in.

Originally posted by Arhael
Giving lethal weapons to pro-ukranian side would imply that pro-russian side is bad but these "pro-russian separatists" are citizens like anyone else. The problem started when the government was overthrown, many people didn't want it. It's a civil war.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
They're also Russian soldiers and Ukrainian soldiers who defected. And as far as NATO's concerned it's basically Russia violating Ukraine's sovereignty by aiding the rebels and sending some of their military in.

It's a complicated situation because the cultural difference between Eastern Ukraine and Russia is as small as the cultural difference between Mexico and parts of Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona along the Mexican-American border.

Most of the Separatists are homegrown, however their actual support within the Donbass Region is questionable. Most people in the East just want to see the war end and probably resent both sides for uprooting their lives.

It isn't up for debate that Russia is sending heavy weapons into Ukraine, and from this it's logical that they're also sending Russian military advisers and technicians to make sure the equipment is used properly. The newer tanks that have been showing up on the frontline feature reactive armor that the Ukrainian military has never possessed, so it can't be the result of defections or looted Ukrainian army bases.

If I were the US government, I'd be looking to buy Russian-made weapons from other countries (India, for instance) to sell to the Ukrainians. That way we'd be able to arm the Ukrainians without giving Putin the excuse he needs to ramp up the stakes. I know that sounds like some Iran-Contra BS, but hey, this is a dirty game so why are we trying to act like we're clean?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
It's a complicated situation because the cultural difference between Eastern Ukraine and Russia is as small as the cultural difference between Mexico and parts of Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona along the Mexican-American border.

Most of the Separatists are homegrown, however their actual support within the Donbass Region is questionable. Most people in the East just want to see the war end and probably resent both sides for uprooting their lives.

It isn't up for debate that Russia is sending heavy weapons into Ukraine, and from this it's logical that they're also sending Russian military advisers and technicians to make sure the equipment is used properly. The newer tanks that have been showing up on the frontline feature reactive armor that the Ukrainian military has never possessed, so it can't be the result of defections or looted Ukrainian army bases.

If I were the US government, I'd be looking to buy Russian-made weapons from other countries (India, for instance) to sell to the Ukrainians. That way we'd be able to arm the Ukrainians without giving Putin the excuse he needs to ramp up the stakes. I know that sounds like some Iran-Contra BS, but hey, this is a dirty game so why are we trying to act like we're clean?


👆 That's really smart actually.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/14/world/europe/ukraine-fighting-escalates-ahead-of-truce.html?_r=0

It's a complicated situation because the cultural difference between Eastern Ukraine and Russia is as small as the cultural difference between Mexico and parts of Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona along the Mexican-American border.

It is very stupid situation because both sides are same people with same values. All the hatred is caused by bigots on both sides and majority of pieceful people suffer as result.

It isn't up for debate that Russia is sending heavy weapons into Ukraine, and from this it's logical that they're also sending Russian military advisers and technicians to make sure the equipment is used properly. The newer tanks that have been showing up on the frontline feature reactive armor that the Ukrainian military has never possessed, so it can't be the result of defections or looted Ukrainian army bases.

It's actually is for debate. Both sides give completely different stories. A meteorite falls from sky for 10 seconds, there is lots of futage and other evidence. Russia sends troops and equipment and yet there is no concrete evidence, only claims and rumours.

I laughed how Poroshenko waved Russian passports as "proof" that there is Russian army in Ukraine. Only he didn't know that Russian troops never carry passports.
http://rt.com/op-edge/230295-poroshenko-russian-passports-propaganda/

What do you mean no concrete evidence? There are photographs and videos of Separatists using equipment that the Ukrainian military has never possessed.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
What do you mean no concrete evidence? There are photographs and videos of Separatists using equipment that the Ukrainian military has never possessed.

The guy used Russia Today as a source, so, you know...

RT isn't always wrong, it's just biased toward the Russian government's viewpoint.

When you read an English RT article covering the same event as the BBC or NYT, the articles often read quite the same. It's just when you see an RT article that focuses on a unique situation (one that isn't covered by other news sources) that the differences emerge.

http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKBN0LK0LT20150216?irpc=932
Ugh.

It really doesn't look like this "ceasefire" will last much longer.

Whelp, Ukraine lost Debaltseve.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31519000

The Russians have attacked us with Siberian air. dur

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-31538987