Originally posted by RobtardThe context of the scene is that an average boxer punching power is 700 psi upon hitting an object on full impact. Drago exceeded that. The scene was not about taking an average from Drago by measuring him after letting Drago hit multiple times.
Then you're not following what "average" means hereThere is actually. Repeat: It's when Drago hits at 1850psi and it's stated as his "average". 1850psi could not be his "average" if that was his max at the time
Which just tells us that he can hit at 2150psi. But from an MVF standpoint, this would be his max
Either way he is not shown hitting harder until the training scene. So what is your point, he never grew stronger from training and was hitting with the same amount of power always? If so the movie disagrees.
Two, your comment still does nothing to counter the fact that you can't hit a moving object with nearly the same amount of force. Something you obviously refuse to agree acknowledge.
Originally posted by AuraAngelYou are missing the point. One every jab thrown is not 1850 psi. Neither is a hook, or upper cut. Drago punch was a straight forward punch with full impact. Usually in boxing when a fighter is able to connect a full on impact hit it knocks the other fighter out or slows them down considerably.
I know that Drago is looking at a an angry Italian bastard that is gonna try his best to knock him the hell out. I know that the average punching strength of a person does not drop by half in the ring. Are the situations different between punching in a controlled environment and a boxing ring? Absolutely. But scientifically speaking the drop in power you're sugesting is so astronomically stupid that it is impossible to believe. Let's say Apollo Creed has a punching force of, say, 1450 psi. I'm being extremely generous here but let us just use that number. In the ring, if Drago's dropped by 850 or more then, logically, so would Creed's, who would start hitting like a dandelion. If we take the films word that the average force of a normal boxer's punch is 750 then, well, they aren't hurting anybody because it drops so damn much in the ring. Now this is ludicrous but this is what you were arguing. If the machine had given Drago a score of 750 you wouldn't be *****ing about how his punching power must decrease in the ring. But because the number is flat out super human and goes against your idea that the film with the sex robot is realistic, you've taken technically true concept(hitting a moving human is different from hitting a punching bag) to astronomical extremes.
So the point is how much pressure or force is connecting with every punch that is thrown on a fighter that is moving and blocking. To say it is the same is incorrect. No one is saying Drago hits are weak just that every hit is not connecting at 1850 psi.
Others want to argue that every hit was 1850 psi which includes jab, hooks, etc. The only thing you can call that is stupid. The movie is fiction not fantasy. Rules of the real world are used in the fiction story.
Originally posted by Kotor3
The context of the scene is that an average boxer punching power is 700 psi upon hitting an object on full impact. Drago exceeded that. The scene was not about taking an average from Drago by measuring him after letting Drago hit multiple times.Either way he is not shown hitting harder until the training scene. So what is your point, he never grew stronger from training and was hitting with the same amount of power always? If so the movie disagrees.
Two, your comment still does nothing to counter the fact that you can't hit a moving object with nearly the same amount of force. Something you obviously refuse to agree acknowledge.
The context of the scene is that Drago's average punch is 1,850psi and that it's about 2.5 times higher than the average of other boxers
That does not dismiss that Drago in that same very scene has already at some point hit harder and lower since that is precisely what "average" dictates
Prove Drago hits like a twinklefaery in the ring and isn't able to produce even his "average" of 1,850psi, let alone the 2,150psi (max shown) at times. Prove it with proof
Originally posted by AuraAngel
I know that Drago is looking at a an angry Italian bastard that is gonna try his best to knock him the hell out. I know that the average punching strength of a person does not drop by half in the ring. Are the situations different between punching in a controlled environment and a boxing ring? Absolutely. But scientifically speaking the drop in power you're sugesting is so astronomically stupid that it is impossible to believe. Let's say Apollo Creed has a punching force of, say, 1450 psi. I'm being extremely generous here but let us just use that number. In the ring, if Drago's dropped by 850 or more then, logically, so would Creed's, who would start hitting like a dandelion. If we take the films word that the average force of a normal boxer's punch is 750 then, well, they aren't hurting anybody because it drops so damn much in the ring. Now this is ludicrous but this is what you were arguing. If the machine had given Drago a score of 750 you wouldn't be *****ing about how his punching power must decrease in the ring. But because the number is flat out super human and goes against your idea that the film with the sex robot is realistic, you've taken technically true concept(hitting a moving human is different from hitting a punching bag) to astronomical extremes.
Let's clear some things up her bud
First, I never not once ever get my opinion on what his punching power in an actual fight. So stop trying to put words in my life. My whole point in bringing this stuff up is that people were claiming Drago can put at that level and higher throughout the fight. So this whole line of discussion is because I'm objecting to that notion totally. It seems you agree with me 100% that those scenarios are near close to the same.
Second, you seem to be confused on the scene in question. They weren't saying a normal HW punches throughout the fight at 700 psi. Not even close to what he was saying. He was saying that is what a normal HW would do when putting all they have into a punch in a set environment. That is how hard they can punch on average. Do you honestly think when someone jabs it's at 750 psi.. or when he's punching of his back foot... or when he's ducking and countering etc etc. I could go on and on how the majority and VAST majority of punches are you never in a position to fire a punch away like in the test sequence. They also aren't punching at 750 psi for the entirety of the fight nor are their punches at that level
Third, do you actually think that Robot was meant to illustrate a dramatic change in characters and direction of the movie? That's literally ludicrous to even suggest such a thing. That is not technology beyond the times and certainly nothing special today. In no way does that support the case for a superhuman Rocky
Fourth, my contention is that Drago hit like a mother fing truck.. Of this I have no doubt. I think the clear presentation of the movie makes this point crystal clear to me and most. I've never argued against that. Even if let's say Drago power punches are at 700 psi... that's still devastating. If a normal HW under that test in a set environment does 750 putting his all into a punch.. but when in an actual fight his punches are more like 450... Well drago punching at 700 on average will illustrate that same point and he'd be devastating. This point is proven by Apollo surviving for as long as he did. He Drago could truly punch at 1850 all the time... Apollo would've been KO'd in one punch. Not take 38 punches. IF Drago could punch at 1000 psi.. he'd also likely be Ko'd in one punch or at the most 3. See how this works? We don't need to make Apollo superhuman and Rocky superhuman that defies the whole direction of the movie entirely from one based in realism to they are all now superhuman. Sorry I don't buy it. In order for that theory to work
1. Apollo would have to be in his prime in his mid 40's (unlike any human in existence)
2. Apollo's durability somehow gets stronger with age and years of being hit in the head (unlike any human in existence)
3. Apollo is someone is better shape having been retired from active boxing at the highest level for over 5 years.. barely trained or took the fight seriously.. yet someone he's in better shape than when he was active.. the HW champion of the world at 28 while regularly training with the best and beating the best at a world class level (Which again is laughable and different than any other human in existence)
4. You know what else they want us to believe... That Drago was Rocky's toughest foe.. A guy with not one single professional fight in his entire career at that point. A guy who hadn't taken on the best and beat the best. Yet somehow he's greater than Apollo.. A guy who's only lost one professional fight in his career. A guy considered the best of all time by Rocky 1. A guy who's beat the best over and over again. Yet somehow, Drago is his superior being 0-1 as a professional. Simply ludicrous to even suggest that.
Do you see all the dramatic leaps in logic and common sense we need to make in order for Drago to punch at that level all the time for round after round. It's a ludicrous notion to even think such a thing. Even if we suggest that similar things happen to Rocky (different than any other human in existence (which I also don't agree with), but let's say this is so. It's stupid to say that Apollo who character also changed entirely. At least Rocky took training very seriously.. was super motivated.. this is in stark contrast to Apollo but yet he's also superhuman now 2... Please. That is why such a suggestion is retarded.
This is all I've been saying the entire time.. We don't need to change the characters entirely and make them superhuman for the movie to work. We don't need to through logic and common sense out the window entirely to make it all work. Drago doesn't need to punch at 1850 psi to make it work. He was super strong and a devastating puncher that much is clear, but we don't need to make him more than that. Rocky is very much grounded in realism, it's why it won awards because of how real it was. Rocky 2 and 3 carried on with that view. We don't need an entire change in the Rockyverse and their characters for it to make sense. In order for this to true and fact.. I would need to see an interview from the director talking about this dramatic change in their characters. I've asked for this proof and there is none. Not a single thing. Hopefully you understand what I'm saying now as it seems you were a little confused on my stance and how this all came up.
Originally posted by RobtardAlready have provided proof, you don't want to acknowledge it. According to you a person can hit a moving object while they are moving with the same precision and force as a non-moving object while you are solidly planted on your feet.
The context of the scene is that Drago's average punch is 1,850psi and that it's about 2.5 times higher than the average of other boxersThat does not dismiss that Drago in that same very scene has already at some point hit harder and lower since that is precisely what "average" dictates
Prove Drago hits like a twinklefaery in the ring and isn't able to produce even his "average" of 1,850psi, let alone the 2,150psi (max shown) at times. Prove it with proof
Well science disagrees with you.
Here is a boxing term: Ride the punching or ride with the punches. Meaning - To deflect the force of an opponent's punches by moving the body adroitly.
Fans of boxing frequently observe this same principle of minimizing the effect of a force by extending the time of collision. When a boxer recognizes that he will be hit in the head by his opponent, the boxer often relaxes his neck and allows his head to move backwards upon impact. In the boxing world, this is known as riding the punch. A boxer rides the punch in order to extend the time of impact of the glove with their head. Extending the time results in decreasing the force and thus minimizing the effect of the force in the collision. Merely increasing the collision time by a factor of ten would result in a tenfold decrease in the force.
As I said before science disagrees with you.
Originally posted by Kotor3
Here is a boxing term: Ride the punching or ride with the punches. Meaning - To deflect the force of an opponent's punches by moving the body adroitly.Fans of boxing frequently observe this same principle of minimizing the effect of a force by extending the time of collision. When a boxer recognizes that he will be hit in the head by his opponent, the boxer often relaxes his neck and allows his head to move backwards upon impact. In the boxing world, this is known as riding the punch. A boxer rides the punch in order to extend the time of impact of the glove with their head. Extending the time results in decreasing the force and thus minimizing the effect of the force in the collision. Merely increasing the collision time by a factor of ten would result in a tenfold decrease in the force.
As I said before science disagrees with you.
Well then, in your "science" how hard is Drago's "average" punch in the ring if not 1,850psi?
Originally posted by Robtard
Well then, in your "science" how hard is Drago's "average" punch in the ring if not 1,850psi?
He still doesn't understand that the very things he's using to try and lowball Drago's punches would apply to every boxer and thus in the end Drago's in-ring punches would still be between 2-3x more powerful.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
They don't have to hit at 1850 psi every time. A drop of 200, 300, or even 400, wouldn't stop the punches from being super humanly strong. There is no winning this argument. The fact is no angle, no amount of rolling, nothing will make Drago's punches weak enough to be realistic.
Okay so you didn't read what I wrote then which should've made things clear. Drago's normal punches in a fight being at 700 or even 900 psi would be devastating to a boxer. It could literally be cut in half and be devastating. You guys are the ones being unrealistic with an apparent lake of understanding how boxing works and how a fight progresses.
Originally posted by Silent Master
He still doesn't understand that the very things he's using to try and lowball Drago's punches would apply to every boxer and thus in the end Drago's in-ring punches would still be between 2-3x more powerful.
You guys still don't understand that scene or what was being conveyed there. When he said the average HW punches at 750 psi.. that is them doing the same test... Standing there.. taking a deep breathe.. composing yourself... torqueing your torso and legs while stepping into a stationary target in a set environment. So their normal punching power would also decrease as well in an actual fight. They may be able to get off the occasional punch once in a great while at that level but the vast vast majority aren't at that level So even if we say drago's normal punching power in a fight is cut in half at 925 psi.. that would be devastating still. I'm amazed these concepts are so difficult to understand.
Originally posted by RobtardFirst off, why do you keep interpreting the scene to mean Drago's average punching power when it clearly is the average max punching power for a boxer not his average punch?
Well then, in your "science" how hard is Drago's "average" punch in the ring if not 1,850psi?
I don't know what his average punching power is. I would say if his max is 2150 psi, his average punching power for full impact by the time he fights Rocky would be somewhere over a 1000 psi.
Originally posted by Kotor3
First off, why do you keep interpreting the scene to mean Drago's average punching power when it clearly is the average max punching power for a boxer not his average punch?I don't know what his average punching power is. I would say if his max is 2150 psi, his average punching power for full impact by the time he fights Rocky would be somewhere over a 1000 psi.
So now that was Drago's "average max"? I LoL'd. The scene said "average punch" and that still wouldn't do away that he would have "averaged maxed" higher to get the "average" of 1850psi
Well that would still make Rocky have super-human durability according to the reasoning expressed earlier in this thread 👆
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You guys still don't understand that scene or what was being conveyed there. When he said the average HW punches at 750 psi.. that is them doing the same test... Standing there.. taking a deep breathe.. composing yourself... torqueing your torso and legs while stepping into a stationary target in a set environment. So their normal punching power would also decrease as well in an actual fight. They may be able to get off the occasional punch once in a great while at that level but the vast vast majority aren't at that level So even if we say drago's normal punching power in a fight is cut in half at 925 psi.. that would be devastating still. I'm amazed these concepts are so difficult to understand.
I'll ask you too then. What psi/power is Drago punching at normally in a ring environment if even cutting the average of 1850psi in half is still nonsense?
Originally posted by AuraAngelWho is arguing that his powering power is not superhuman?
They don't have to hit at 1850 psi every time. A drop of 200, 300, or even 400, wouldn't stop the punches from being super humanly strong. There is no winning this argument. The fact is no angle, no amount of rolling, nothing will make Drago's punches weak enough to be realistic.
Just like no one is arguing that Rocky's durability throughout the movies have been nothing put superhuman.
What is being argued is when Drago fanboys state that Drago is hitting at his max all the time which is ridiculous. If Drago did hit at his max all the time then he would make the same mistake that Lang made when he fought Rocky and would wear himself out quite quickly.
Even if Drago decided to go by that strategy, according to the riding the punch science, the chances that he would hit Rocky with the full impact is quite slim.