Ivan Drago vs Apollo from Rocky II

Originally posted by Kotor3
Who is arguing that his powering power is not superhuman?

Just like no one is arguing that Rocky's durability throughout the movies have been nothing put superhuman.

What is being argued is when Drago fanboys state that Drago is hitting at his max all the time which is ridiculous. If Drago did hit at his max all the time then he would make the same mistake that Lang made when he fought Rocky and would wear himself out quite quickly.

Even if Drago decided to go by that strategy, according to the riding the punch science, the chances that he would hit Rocky with the full impact is quite slim.

The other K-guy is, maybe you should have a word with him and set him straight

See above

No one argued that Drago hits at 2150psi with each and every single hit. Just that he could hit Balboa with his average of 1850psi at times and Balboa took 15rds of this

See above

Originally posted by Robtard
The other K-guy is, maybe you should have a word with him and set him straight

See above

No one argued that Drago hits at 2150psi with each and every single hit. Just that he could hit Balboa with his average of 1850psi at times and Balboa took 15rds of this

See above

Repeating yourself and playing with words doesn't make you right.

One, you already know I don't agree with the fact that 1850 psi is Drago's average punching power. Your interpretation of the scene doesn't agree with the movie, average Max power not average punching power. Two, according to science which is even known in boxing as the riding a punch, the ability to hit someone that is moving with the full force of a punch is slim to none.

When you are able to prove that a person can connect full force on a moving object that is straying away from a punch, then come to me with the Rocky took 15 rounds of 1850 psi.

Your concession is gladly accepted!

Originally posted by Robtard
I'll ask you too then. What psi/power is Drago punching at normally in a ring environment if even cutting the average of 1850psi in half is still nonsense?

NO idea, and I never claimed to know. All I did was debunk the theory that he's punching at average of 1850 psi during the actual fight. That is what you guys claimed and that is how this whole discussion got started. I was disproving that claim and I believe I've done so... What he was punching at during the actual fight I have no idea and never gave a figure. What I do know for a fact is that it's not 1850 during the actual fight. Period, end of story

Originally posted by Robtard
The other K-guy is, maybe you should have a word with him and set him straight

See above

No one argued that Drago hits at 2150psi with each and every single hit. Just that he could hit Balboa with his average of 1850psi at times and Balboa took 15rds of this

See above

Actually that is not what was said and NOT even close to what was said by others.. including yourself. If need be I'll go back and quote various people who NEVER ever said he only did that once in awhile but that wasn't his average during the fight. If you guys had said that, I would have argued with you guys on this point much, if at all. As long as we're clear that the 1850 mark would be extremely rare if at all that he punched that hard during the actual fight. Maybe once or twice but that even being generous. Your latest post is more measured and accurate, but that certainly wasn't what was being claimed previous by others and you know it.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Playing with words are we? According to you Dragos' max is just 300 more psi then his average punching power. You say he hit Rocky with 15 rounds of 1850 psi. I understand you quite clearly.

Repeating yourself and playing with words doesn't make you right.

One, you already know I don't agree with the fact that 1850 psi is Drago's average punching power. Your interpretation of the scene doesn't agree with the movie, average Max power not average punching power. Two, according to science which is even known in boxing as the riding a punch, the ability to hit someone that is moving with the full force of a punch is slim to none.

When you are able to prove that a person can connect full force on a moving object that is straying away from a punch, then come to me with the Rocky took 15 rounds of 1850 psi.

Your concession is gladly accepted!

Now you're just making stuff up and accusing me of the nonsense you were doing.

Incorrect, I said I didn't know what Drago's max was, but since 2,150psi was shown, that's what we go with in a MVF setting/rules. Read the rules

By not agreeing that 1850psi is Drago's average punch, you're ignoring the film. It was shown and stated, best if you just deal with it

Again, you're not understanding what I said or are strawmanning, I explicitly said "at times" in the very same quote you replied too

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
NO idea, and I never claimed to know. All I did was debunk the theory that he's punching at average of 1850 psi during the actual fight. That is what you guys claimed and that is how this whole discussion got started. I was disproving that claim and I believe I've done so... What he was punching at during the actual fight I have no idea and never gave a figure. What I do know for a fact is that it's not 1850 during the actual fight. Period, end of story

LOL, you did. You claimed that Drago couldn't even punch at 850psi, as even this low of a number (by comparison) is unrealistic

No, I never once claimed that. What I SAID WAS, that even at 850 psi Apollo should not have been able to take that many punches even at that level, let alone 1850 psi. Drago can clearly punch as high as 2150 in a set environment and I never once disputed he could. My only contention which I've debunked is that he wasn't punching people at that level for a majority or even some of the time during the actual fight. Those level of punches would be very very few and far between. That doesn't mean he couldn't be punching at an average of 850 psi for normal powershots which would still be beastly... Or even a 1000 psi or 1200 psi on occasion. What I'm saying and clearly proved is that he couldn't have been punching at 1950 psi for most of his punches for the entirety of the fight

Originally posted by Robtard
Now you're just making stuff up and accusing me of the nonsense you were doing.

Incorrect, I said I didn't know what Drago's max was, but since 2,150psi was shown, that's what we go with in a MVF setting/rules. Read the rules

By not agreeing that 1850psi is Drago's average punch, you're ignoring the film. It was shown and stated, best if you just deal with it

Again, you're not understanding what I said or are strawmanning, I explicitly said "at times" in the very same quote you replied too

Here you go playing with words again. Since 2150 psi was shown you are going with that as his max for what was shown in the movies, right? Just like I said previously that for our conversation lets stick only to what is displayed in the movie.

With me, or do you want to continue to talk in circles?

Frankly, we do not agree. Your whole argument is based off the fact that you believe Drago's average punching power to be 1850 psi.

As already stated you and I interpret the scene differently. You have said nothing to convince me otherwise. You also have not address and totally ignored the factual science of not being able to connect with full force on a object that is moving.

So, I agree to disagree with you. Enjoyed the discussion.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
No, I never once claimed that. What I SAID WAS, that even at 850 psi Apollo should not have been able to take that many punches even at that level, let alone 1850 psi. Drago can clearly punch as high as 2150 in a set environment and I never once disputed he could. My only contention which I've debunked is that he wasn't punching people at that level for a majority or even some of the time during the actual fight. Those level of punches would be very very few and far between. That doesn't mean he couldn't be punching at an average of 850 psi for normal powershots which would still be beastly... Or even a 1000 psi or 1200 psi on occasion. What I'm saying and clearly proved is that he couldn't have been punching at 1950 psi for most of his punches for the entirety of the fight

You clearly said that Drago couldn't even punch at 850psi in the ring as even 850psi in unrealistic to you. Ergo, you have a number or some number-range that you think Drago can hit at in the ring and it's somewhere between 1 - 849psi. You're just too scared to say it now.

I was disputing the notion that Apollo could even take 39 850 psi level punches. I made this claim over and over. Because factually it's absolutely true. I never once claimed drago was incapable of punching that hard... since we've seen him punch double that in a set environment. Don't be mad Robbie because you and others claimed Drago was hitting Apollo and Rocky with an Average of 1850 psi level punches for the entirety of the fight. Numerous people were making that claim. I've thoroughly debunked that theory.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Your humor does amuse me, even if your stupidity annoys me at times. So are you suggesting that Elendil or Gil-galad could defeat Feanor? That's simply laughable to suggest it and you know it.

Not "or". "And". 🙂

]quote]Feanor battle feats poop all over theirs. Even in dying he put forth a greater effort than they did in their entire existence. We won't even get into his forging which further poop all over them. He would literally curb them pretty easily... yeah gothmog beat that guy.[/quote]

Gothmog needed an entire cadre of Balrogs as well as an army of orcs to beat a few elves who didn't have any particularly impressive feats at the time. 👆

You're still a pussy who lies about the text. 👇

"Thus it was that he drew far ahead of the van of his host; and seeing this the servants of Morgoth turned to bay, and there issued from Angband Balrogs to aid them. There upon the confines of Dor Daedeloth, the land of Morgoth, Feanor was surrounded, with few friends about him. Long he fought on, and undismayed, though he was wrapped in fire and wounded with many wounds; but at the last he was smitten to the ground by Gothmog, Lord of the Balrogs, whom Ecthelion after slew in Gondolin."

Sauron's first death required Eru Illuvitar himself to step in to kill him.

Gothmog was pushed into a fountain by a single tired elf, who only died because he drowned. 👆

Luthien greatest feat is catching Morgoth by surprise.. errrr.. not impressive. Further, it was hyperbole that someone vastly more powerful than Sauron would be under a spell but not Sauron himself... Odd eh? Maybe cause he wasn't directly impacted by it eh?

No, I think Luthien's greatest feat is knocking out Morgoth and his entire army with her magic. The same magic could only make Sauron drowsy, though it did help Huan (who by feats is much stronger than Feanor by the way) defeat him afterwards.

I don't think you understand what hyperbole is.

Sauron was directly affected by the spell. 🙂

Morgoth might have been caught off guard, true, but the entire host of Angband?

Sorry bro, there you have it: Sauron > Gothmog and his entire army.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I'm genuinely curious still... do u understand the extreme differences in those two situations? Let's start there. Do u understand how n why u can't put the same kinda force into each punch in a boxing match as u can in the drago scene?

Type like a man.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Okay so you didn't read what I wrote then which should've made things clear. Drago's normal punches in a fight being at 700 or even 900 psi would be devastating to a boxer. It could literally be cut in half and be devastating. You guys are the ones being unrealistic with an apparent lake of understanding how boxing works and how a fight progresses.

So even with your lowball estimate, we have a fighter with fists as heavy as cars. I accept your concession. 👆

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I was disputing the notion that Apollo could even take 39 850 psi level punches. I made this claim over and over. Because factually it's absolutely true. I never once claimed drago was incapable of punching that hard... since we've seen him punch double that in a set environment. Don't be mad Robbie because you and others claimed Drago was hitting Apollo and Rocky with an Average of 1850 psi level punches for the entirety of the fight. Numerous people were making that claim. I've thoroughly debunked that theory.

You've debunked nothing, since once again you're discussing reality with your "factually" and we're discussing a fictional film that not only features a super-human Soviet and Balboa, but a robot and previously semi-retarded Paulie being able to reprogram it overnight

Drago's average punch is 1850psi as shown, stands to reason he could reproduce that and greater at times. The film supports this, unlike your claims of less than 850psi, which you seem to have literally just make up on a whim

You clearly think Drago couldn't even do 700psi in the ring going with that quote above. So why don't you just stop being scared and give the number you think Drago hits at in a fight

Originally posted by NemeBro
Drago's normal punches in a fight being seven to nine hundred PSI would also make his punches hit with a force of 2,800-3,600 pounds. 🙂

So even with your lowball estimate, we have a fighter with fists as heavy as cars. I accept your concession. 👆

Wrong I wholeheartedly accept your concession. You just agreed Drago doesn't hit with the force of 1850 psi for the entire match nor are most of his punches at that level. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN ARGUING THIS ENTIRE TIME. Thanks for the concession, and as usual I win this portion of the argument with you.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I am also genuinely curious... do you know how to type like a grown man? Are you aware that you are not texting?

Type like a man.

I also accept your concession here. You know that I'm right, but declined to answer because yet again you'd lose an argument to KuRupT. It's okay buddy, you're still kinda funny. BTW, I was texting lol

Originally posted by Robtard
You've debunked nothing, since once again you're discussing reality with your "factually" and we're discussing a fictional film that not only features a super-human Soviet and Balboa, but a robot and previously semi-retarded Paulie being able to reprogram it overnight

Drago's average punch is 1850psi as shown, stands to reason he could reproduce that and greater at times. The film supports this, unlike your claims of less than 850psi, which you seem to have literally just make up on a whim

You clearly think Drago couldn't even do 700psi in the ring going with that quote above. So why don't you just stop being scared and give the number you think Drago hits at in a fight

Wrong again, You guys made the claim Drago was hitting at that level during the fight. That theory has been thoroughly and completely debunked by me. You even concede that the punching scene in question is far different than a boxing match. Aura concede the they are far from the same. Neme just admitted they are different and even if he was only punching at 900 psi that still hitting like a truck. Something I've been saying over and over. It's okay Robbie, you guys made a claim that he was punching Apollo and Rocky at that level.. I've completely crushed that theory. Thanks bud.

The film supports him hitting that level in a set environment.. AT NO POINT did it show how hard he was hitting in the actual fight. Nice try though.

BTW maybe you should watch the Rampage Jackson sports science episode.. He literally hit at 1800 psi and he's hardly superhuman. Superhuman is reserved for someone who is beyond what any human could produce. Clearly 1850 psi average is not superhuman. Thanks for playing.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Wrong again, You guys made the claim Drago was hitting at that level during the fight. That theory has been thoroughly and completely debunked by me. You even concede that the punching scene in question is far different than a boxing match. Aura concede the they are far from the same. Neme just admitted they are different and even if he was only punching at 900 psi that still hitting like a truck. Something I've been saying over and over. It's okay Robbie, you guys made a claim that he was punching Apollo and Rocky at that level.. I've completely crushed that theory. Thanks bud.

The film supports him hitting that level in a set environment.. AT NO POINT did it show how hard he was hitting in the actual fight. Nice try though.

BTW maybe you should watch the Rampage Jackson sports science episode.. He literally hit at 1800 psi and he's hardly superhuman. Superhuman is reserved for someone who is beyond what any human could produce. Clearly 1850 psi average is not superhuman. Thanks for playing.

Yes, you've debunked everything by refusing to give a number, all we know is that you think Drago hitting a 700psi in the ring is silly

Correct, there wasn't a "Drago Hit Meter" during the fight, but that hasn't stopped you from randomly throwing numbers around. What we do know is that his "average" punch is 1850psi, stands to reason he could achieve his average from time to time

LoL, this guy. Let me guess, you think the numbers they pull on The Ultimate Warrior are true too and not embellished nonsense to make the show more interesting? But you're forgetting that 1850psi is Drago's "average", which implies he has hit harder and is seen to hit harder, cos it's fiction and doesn't try to be more. Hippos bite at around 1800psi, LOL!

btw, still waiting on you to give an about number for Drago's ring punching power, scared guy

I can't believe this is still going on. During the training montage, Drago shown making punches that increased in power from his "average" 1850 psi to a full 2150 psi (repeat OVER A FULL TON per square inch). He was KOing people who were wearing headgear. Drago was full on shown to be a drug-amped, hell-trained superhuman that besides Rocky, who became equally superhuman to fight him using a tougher-than-ever-before training system, is the toughest fighter the Rockyverse has seen before or since. Every version of Apollo is going down to him.

They like Apollo more, thus he must win even if it means ignoring what the movies clearly show.