Ivan Drago vs Apollo from Rocky II

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Already did, he clearly wasn't okay.. His face was swelled up.. he was bleeding from the mouth and nose. His body was busted up. In no way would anybody make the representation that they are okay and it be true. If he was getting hit as hard as you claim... he would know for a fact he wasn't okay and hurt badly. Yet, he acted like he was just fine. We know he wasn't. I doesn't matter what he believes or not believes there is REALITY. We know he wasn't okay. So either he lies about his condition or doesn't know his body well enough to state his proper condition. In either case, you lose this portion of the argument. There is no way around that.

Further, the prefight boasting he used in previous fights solidifies it. He said Rocky was a bum who didn't belong in the ring with him. CLEARLY not true. Even if he believed that, again then, he has no clue about who belongs in the ring or not. It doesn't make it better that he is clueless instead of a liar.. EITHER one make point and end the discussion. He said he would KO rocky in one round. Guess what, he know he was wrong, even if he believed that. No matter how you slice it... Apollo's prefight boasts are either lies.. or he has no clue. In either case, game over and thanks for playing big Robbie.

Amazing that during Balboa's fight, he got "busted up" too, yet he was okay and went on to win the fight. Ergo, you calling Apollo a flat-out liar is little more than more racist racism

Balboa was a bum on paper, he was a loan shark's hired muscle and had a boxing record of 50-something wins and over 20 losses. So Apollo wasn't lying when he said it, Balboa just turned out to be more later on

Originally posted by Kotor3
Once again you like to stick to what is specifically shown in the movies. I do not recall him displaying a hit that was higher than 1850 psi until the training scene. So whether he could or not is not shown.

You seem to not understand what "average" here means then? Let Robtard assist

eg If you have an "average" of $550.00 in your checking account in the month of January, that implies that at some point you had more and at some point you had less. See now?

/maths

Originally posted by Robtard
Amazing that during Balboa's fight, he got "busted up" too, yet he was okay and went on to win the fight. Ergo, you calling Apollo a flat-out liar is little more than more racist racism

Balboa was a bum on paper, he was a loan shark's hired muscle and had a boxing record of 50-something wins and over 20 losses. So Apollo wasn't lying when he said it, Balboa just turned out to be more later on

Rocky looked nothing like Apollo did or near as busted up, not even close to a comparison. Rocky was in a war for 15 rounds and looked better than Creed after 1 round. Point is, it doesn't matter if he was lying or just has no clue. WE KNOW he wasn't fine... Therefore, either prove my case. He clearly wasn't a bum.. He just took the champ the distance.. something no fighter had ever done in his entire professional career. Therefore, we know Rocky wasn't a bum. Again, it doesn't matter whether he believes it or not, he clearly is wrong about a great many things in regards to his condition and the state of his foe. He believed the same about Drago and got crushed. Don't worry Robbie you don't have to concede the entire argument but it's clear Apollo either misrepresents his condition and prone to pre fight boasting that isn't true 🙂

Because Balboa's final form > Creed's, ffs, Balboa grew a beard and achieved maximum manliness and masculinity

Though I'm of the personal opinion that Creed could have reached Balboa's level, or there about, if he had a grueling training session during a Russian winter to "Hearts On Fire" and a hard-on for revenge. But again, this is just my personal opinion and not fact. Or another way to look at it. Balboa = Goku, Creed = Vegeta

Originally posted by Robtard
You seem to not understand what "average" here means then? Let Robtard assist

eg If you have an "average" of $550.00 in your checking account in the month of January, that implies that at some point you had more and at some point you had less. See now?

/maths

You wish to only recognize the first while disregarding the later. So to make things simple lets stick to what is displayed in the movie and not to what is reasonable since you like to pick when to be reasonable.

As long as you understand that even in the first 1850psi scene Drago could already hit harder than 1850psi, it's copasetic

I've been sticking to what is shown in the films all along

I do not agree that Drago could hit harder than 1850 psi the first time. There is nothing in the movie to prove this. Later on they show Drago punching at a higher level from his training.

What possible combination of circumstances would be required for Drago's force of 1850 psi to drop to below 1000 psi?

Originally posted by Kotor3
I do not agree that Drago could hit harder than 1850 psi the first time.

There is nothing in the movie to prove this.

Later on they show Drago punching at a higher level from his training.

Then you're not following what "average" means here

There is actually. Repeat: It's when Drago hits at 1850psi and it's stated as his "average". 1850psi could not be his "average" if that was his max at the time

Which just tells us that he can hit at 2150psi. But from an MVF standpoint, this would be his max

Originally posted by Robtard
Because Balboa's final form > Creed's, ffs, Balboa grew a beard and achieved maximum manliness and masculinity

Though I'm of the personal opinion that Creed could have reached Balboa's level, or there about, if he had a grueling training session during a Russian winter to "Hearts On Fire" and a hard-on for revenge. But again, this is just my personal opinion and not fact. Or another way to look at it. Balboa = Goku, Creed = Vegeta

You're a funny guy Robbie, I like your posts. Even though you don't concede points to often (like here), you do actually know what I'm saying and know it has merit and logic even though you won't say it.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
What possible combination of circumstances would be required for Drago's force of 1850 psi to drop to below 1000 psi?

Clearly another person that has either never been in a fight or in a ring before. Did you watch the video... Drago LITERALLY took time to breathe, compose himself, put all he had into the punch while torqueing his torso and legs to hit a NON moving stationary target in a set environment just after shooting up. The circumstances of a fight couldn't be more different. I mean they aren't even comparable. In a fight, you have somebody moving around.. using angles, rolling with punches, ready to counter you if you're not careful and put too much into a punch. They teach you not to put all you have into a punch for that very reason. You need to have some flexibility to change the angle of your punch to even the slightest degree because your opponent moved his head slightly to the left or ducked a little or stepped to the side. Imagine drago trying to punch somebody like he did in that scene. He would never ever hit someone.. EVER. That's why you can't punch that way and put all you have into a punch during a real fight the way you could in that set environment. If you've been in a real fight, you should be able to understand the difference between the two

Have we all agreed that Apollo wins yet?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Clearly another person that has either never been in a fight or in a ring before. Did you watch the video... Drago LITERALLY took time to breathe, compose himself, put all he had into the punch while torqueing his torso and legs to hit a NON moving stationary target in a set environment just after shooting up. The circumstances of a fight couldn't be more different. I mean they aren't even comparable. In a fight, you have somebody moving around.. using angles, rolling with punches, ready to counter you if you're not careful and put too much into a punch. They teach you not to put all you have into a punch for that very reason. You need to have some flexibility to change the angle of your punch to even the slightest degree because your opponent moved his head slightly to the left or ducked a little or stepped to the side. Imagine drago trying to punch somebody like he did in that scene. He would never ever hit someone.. EVER. That's why you can't punch that way and put all you have into a punch during a real fight the way you could in that set environment. If you've been in a real fight, you should be able to understand the difference between the two

We've already established that Drago did not "put all he had" into that 1,850psi punch, since that was his "average" punching power and thereby would mean he could punch harder/higher(and lower) at that point in time

/maths

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Clearly another person that has either never been in a fight or in a ring before. Did you watch the video... Drago LITERALLY took time to breathe, compose himself, put all he had into the punch while torqueing his torso and legs to hit a NON moving stationary target in a set environment just after shooting up. The circumstances of a fight couldn't be more different. I mean they aren't even comparable. In a fight, you have somebody moving around.. using angles, rolling with punches, ready to counter you if you're not careful and put too much into a punch. They teach you not to put all you have into a punch for that very reason. You need to have some flexibility to change the angle of your punch to even the slightest degree because your opponent moved his head slightly to the left or ducked a little or stepped to the side. Imagine drago trying to punch somebody like he did in that scene. He would never ever hit someone.. EVER. That's why you can't punch that way and put all you have into a punch during a real fight the way you could in that set environment. If you've been in a real fight, you should be able to understand the difference between the two

Dude, you're talking about his punching decreasing by more than half. More to the point, Drago did not pull his punchers and he was not fighting a dude known for countering.

If Drago's punching force decreases by half in a fight, then there is no point in trying to learn about it outside a fight. There is also no reason for the scene to exist if Drago is not hitting that hard. Why would the film lie to the audience?

Originally posted by Robtard
We've already established that Drago did not "put all he had" into that 1,850psi punch, since that was his "average" punching power and thereby would mean he could punch harder/higher(and lower) at that point in time

/maths

It's funny how they keep arguing that Drago's punching power wouldn't be that high in a real fight and seem to ignore that following that logic, the same would be true of other boxers. so their entire argument doesn't actually change anything as at the end of the day Drago still hits between 2-3x harder. Whether it's 1850 to 700 or 925 to 350 doesn't really change anything.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Dude, you're talking about his punching decreasing by more than half. More to the point, Drago did not pull his punchers and he was not fighting a dude known for countering.

If Drago's punching force decreases by half in a fight, then there is no point in trying to learn about it outside a fight. There is also no reason for the scene to exist if Drago is not hitting that hard. Why would the film lie to the audience?

I'm genuinely curious still... do u understand the extreme differences in those two situations? Let's start there. Do u understand how n why u can't put the same kinda force into each punch in a boxing match as u can in the drago scene?

Ummm clearly to make the Russian seem more formidable n like a force that will be hard to overcome. Common place in movies. This doesn't mean the expect the audience to through out all common sense n logic n make extreme character shifts to make it all fit. That's my point

Originally posted by Silent Master
It's funny how they keep arguing that Drago's punching power wouldn't be that high in a real fight and seem to ignore that following that logic, the same would be true of other boxers. so their entire argument doesn't actually change anything as at the end of the day Drago still hits between 2-3x harder. Whether it's 1850 to 700 or 925 to 350 doesn't really change anything.

IIRC, I think one of them claimed Drago couldn't hit at even 100psi. Odd. My mother can easily hit at over 100psi and she's a senior

I know that Drago is looking at a an angry Italian bastard that is gonna try his best to knock him the hell out. I know that the average punching strength of a person does not drop by half in the ring. Are the situations different between punching in a controlled environment and a boxing ring? Absolutely. But scientifically speaking the drop in power you're sugesting is so astronomically stupid that it is impossible to believe. Let's say Apollo Creed has a punching force of, say, 1450 psi. I'm being extremely generous here but let us just use that number. In the ring, if Drago's dropped by 850 or more then, logically, so would Creed's, who would start hitting like a dandelion. If we take the films word that the average force of a normal boxer's punch is 750 then, well, they aren't hurting anybody because it drops so damn much in the ring. Now this is ludicrous but this is what you were arguing. If the machine had given Drago a score of 750 you wouldn't be *****ing about how his punching power must decrease in the ring. But because the number is flat out super human and goes against your idea that the film with the sex robot is realistic, you've taken technically true concept(hitting a moving human is different from hitting a punching bag) to astronomical extremes.

Originally posted by Mindset
Have we all agreed that Apollo wins yet?

The people who actually matter agree 131

Do I matter senpai?