Ivan Drago vs Apollo from Rocky II

Originally posted by Kotor3
He wasn't in serious fighting shape to face a hungry powerful monster like Lang was the point. Not that he was out of shape as a fighter. He just finishing defending his title before facing Lang.

So tell me please, how is it that Apollo who did not trained seriously, was retired for years, was in shape when he face Drago who trained intensely for his exhibition fight with Apollo?

Please tell me the difference between the situations with him and Rocky.

Defending it from a cherry picked fighter he could defeat

When did I say Apollo was in peak fighting condition in Rocky 4? He clearly was in decent shape and had some of his moves, but he was retired and not prepared

The difference would be that while Lang downed a not ready Balboa, Drago outright slaughtered (ie beat to death with his fist) a not ready Apollo

edit: Should also add that Creed in 4 not only looked better, but also moved better than Balboa in the first Balboa Vs Lang fight

Originally posted by relentless1
to reinforce your point robtard, the announcers were suprised to see Rocky in the second fight, commenting that he looked much more in shape stating that he looks alot leaner and that he had lost weight, as well as all throughout the fight they constantly commented on this being a completely different Rocky

It's like some of these people don't Rocky at all

Originally posted by Lestov16
Are you serious? Drago is clearly built up to be the toughest fight in the Rocky series besides Rocky himself. He killed Apollo in a few rounds. Apollo was still in good shape during the Drago fight. He wasn't like a nursing home patient. As stated, he's never had to train as hard as Rocky did in part iv. If he's lucky Drago will only KO him.

Totally and completely false and to even suggest Drago was the toughest is beyond stupid. So a guy who's never won a single PROFESSIONAL fight in his life is now the toughest and best guy Rocky faced? Unbelievable. I can't even entertain a conversation that starts with that as its premise. "hey you see that kid who won the golden gloves and gold medal at the ams" "Yeah he's something" "Ohh he's not just something he's the best boxer of all time" "But he hasn't proven it at the professional level for years and years against top flight competition" "Nah who cares, he's the best" Imagine a convo like that, well you're that guy

Originally posted by Robtard
Pretty sure Balboa defeated Apollo in Rocky II and part of the plot of Rocky II was Apollo's questionable win over Bolboa in Rocky. Did you not follow?

Actually it wasn't questionable at all. Creed clearly won the points battle of the fight. He was only KD once.. while Rocky was put down numerous times. Creed clearly won, he was upset as stated in Rocky 2 "because he felt he won but he didn't beat him" Rocky made it to the end and that wasn't what the best fighter ever was suppose to do to a club fighter. However, there was no mistake who took the points victory that fight.

To even suggest Drago was better in an all time sense than Apollo is about as stupid a thing as anybody has every posted on this site.

Originally posted by relentless1
to reinforce your point robtard, the announcers were suprised to see Rocky in the second fight, commenting that he looked much more in shape stating that he looks alot leaner and that he had lost weight, as well as all throughout the fight they constantly commented on this being a completely different Rocky

I would take what they say with the grain of salt.. They also said Rocky looked like a middleweight.... Ummm that's a horrible thing when Face a big strong HW boxer. In fact, it wouldn't even be sanctioned. So I would take much of what they said seriously.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Actually it wasn't questionable at all. Creed clearly won the points battle of the fight. He was only KD once.. while Rocky was put down numerous times. Creed clearly won, he was upset as stated in Rocky 2 "because he felt he won but he didn't beat him" Rocky made it to the end and that wasn't what the best fighter ever was suppose to do to a club fighter. However, there was no mistake who took the points victory that fight.

To even suggest Drago was better in an all time sense than Apollo is about as stupid a thing as anybody has every posted on this site.

It was a split decision, which is what fueled the controversy and the reason why Apollo wanted a rematch so he could defeat Balboa outright sans controversy and prove he's the baddest badass, ie the plot of Rocky II

Originally posted by Robtard
Defending it from a cherry picked fighter he could defeat

Originally posted by Robtard
When did I say Apollo was in peak fighting condition in Rocky 4? He clearly was in decent shape and had some of his moves, but he was retired and not prepared

So Apollo was in decent shape for what? To battle Drago? I mean, you just said that Rocky was out of shape for having cherry picked professionals fighters to fight and for not training seriously, but Apollo was in decent shape having had no fighters to fight in years and after not training seriously.

See a problem with you logic?

Originally posted by Robtard
The difference would be that while Lang downed a not ready Balboa, Drago outright slaughtered (ie beat to death with his fist) a not ready Apollo

Drago slaughtered a fighter who was 7 years pass his prime or last professional fight and who did not trained seriously. You really do not see a difference?

Originally posted by Robtard
edit: Should also add that Creed in 4 not only looked better, but also moved better than Balboa in the first Balboa Vs Lang fight

Originally posted by Kotor3
Cherry picked or not they were professional fighters who Rocky beat. Beast like Lang are not everywhere.

I never said you made such a comment about Apollo being in peak fighting condition. I said in shape and question in cherry picked professionals fighters to fight and for not training comparison to who. You have just again stated in shape.

So Apollo was in decent shape for what? To battle Drago? I mean, you just said that Rocky was out of shape for having seriously, but Apollo was in decent shape having had no fighters to fight in years and after not training seriously.

See a problem with you logic?

Lang didn’t downed he slaughtered a Rocky who was still actively fighting and was overconfident. Let’s get something straight at no time did Mickey or Apollo ever imply that Rocky (whether in shape like he was in two or in his prime during the last fight with Lang) could stand blow for blow with Lang. Which is why Apollo trained Rocky in his style of fighting.

Drago slaughtered a fighter who was 7 years pass his prime or last professional fight and who did not trained seriously. You really do not see a difference?

He also moved better than Rocky did in IV who did nothing but move forward into Drago punches. I see, because he move well and looked in shape, Apollo was in decent shape. Rocky was not because he wasn’t slim. Thanks for clarifying this for me.

Yet still cherry picked so Rocky could win, ie plot of Rocky III

I see no problems with my logic

You implied it

Again, you're ignoring the plot of Rocky III, Balboa didn't lose to Lang just to "overconfidence", he wasn't in shape to face a real opponent, having slacked off due to defending his title from cherry picked opponents and then not really training for the fight the first time around

You're comparing killing someone with punches to KOing them as being exactly the same, see the difference?

Are you being obtuse on purpose? Watch the Creed Vs Drago fight, while out of his prime (as noted), Creed is no slouch even at 43

Originally posted by Robtard
It was a split decision, which is what fueled the controversy and the reason why Apollo wanted a rematch so he could defeat Balboa outright sans controversy and prove he's the baddest badass, ie the plot of Rocky II

What I stated still stands as fact... there was no question Apollo won the fight, because he did.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Your point?
Are you implying that Rocky as of part II was good enough to be Apollo? We know the circumstances behind the win.

Rocky held back in that fight. He purposely hadicapped himself by fighting right handed. So we have Apollo not fighting his exact best(trying to KO Rocky instead of winning by points) and Rocky not fighting his exact best(left handed and/or switching up to throw Creed off his game).

Drago was not the toughest opponent Rocky had.

Drago had basic skill but insane punching power. The only reason he was such a threat is because he was up against Rocky and Apollo who were past their primes.

Apollo and Rocky are at the top of the food chain when they are at their best.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
What I stated still stands as fact... there was no question Apollo won the fight, because he did.

He did, since that was the plot of Rocky, the underdog losing, but doing better than anyone ever imagined. You're not understanding that the plot of Rocky II was if Creed actually deserved it and Creed even questioned himself

LOL. It was made clear that Drago was, in fact, the biggest baddest opponent Rocky had ever faced.

Originally posted by Mindset
Drago was not the toughest opponent Rocky had.

Drago had basic skill but insane punching power. The only reason he was such a threat is because he was up against Rocky and Apollo who were past their primes.

Apollo and Rocky are at the top of the food chain when they are at their best.

Drago was the toughest, since he was engineered to be

This is true, from a technical standpoint, Creed is the best boxer in the Rockyverse, his hand and foot work are above even Balboa, imo

Rocky IV was Rocky in beast mode, withstanding 15 rounds of a guy who can kill people with punches. Balboa did get brain damage though as we see in Rocky V

People are confusing Apollo being the most skilled opponent with being the toughest.

Originally posted by Star428
LOL. It was made clear that Drago was, in fact, the biggest baddest opponent Rocky had ever faced.

What kept being stressed was that Rocky was too far past him prime to beat him, just like Apollo was.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yet still cherry picked so Rocky could win, ie plot of Rocky III

I see no problems with my logic

You implied it

Again, you're ignoring the plot of Rocky III, Balboa didn't lose to Lang just to "overconfidence", he wasn't in shape to face a real opponent, having slacked off due to defending his title from cherry picked opponents and then not really training for the fight the first time around

You're comparing killing someone with punches to KOing them as being exactly the same, see the difference?

Are you being obtuse on purpose? Watch the Creed Vs Drago fight, while out of his prime (as noted), Creed is no slouch even at 43

Cherry pick is irrelevant since they were professionals. Your comment proves nothing.

I stated in shape. If you are going to put words in my mouth, then post where I implied the your supposed statement.

You are ignoring any context that doesn't support your points. Killing an retired fighter in his 40s proves what?

It is clear why the comment was made in a previous thread that some of you have never been in a real fight. This retarded logic is beyond me.

Originally posted by Robtard
Drago was the toughest, since he was engineered to be

This is true, from a technical standpoint, Creed is the best boxer in the Rockyverse, his hand and foot work are above even Balboa, imo

Rocky IV was Rocky in beast mode, withstanding 15 rounds of a guy who can kill people with punches. Balboa did get brain damage though as we see in Rocky V

Originally posted by juggerman
Rocky held back in that fight. He purposely hadicapped himself by fighting right handed. So we have Apollo not fighting his exact best(trying to KO Rocky instead of winning by points) and Rocky not fighting his exact best(left handed and/or switching up to throw Creed off his game).

He only caught Apollo in the last round because Apollo was determined to knock him out.

People forget a lot of the context with Apollo v Drago.

Apollo was retired for like 5 years, Rocky and Adrian didn't even think he could win because of this and his age. Also, the fight wasn't supposed to be serious, it was a charity fight.