I love how so no one can actually mount a counterargument to anything I've said here so they just accuse me of hating Jews or the Jewish religion even though I haven't even really mentioned Jews or Judaism in any of my critiques of Israel.
Originally posted by Star428
It's not Israel's fault that everybody in the Middle East hates them. Israel never starts the fights.
Believe it or not, I do believe that Israel has a right to defend itself, which includes military strikes on other nations in order to destroy their capacity to attack Israel, but I have a hard time backing the Israeli government when they respond to rocket attacks that wound one or two Israelis by flattening entire neighborhoods with airstrike after airstrike.
Israel has a siege mentality, so even when they have legitimate security concerns they end up pushing it too far, and any attempt to criticize them or support the Palestinians diplomatically is seen as an attack on the very foundation of the nation, or perceived, as the fine posters in this thread have demonstrated, as Antisemitism.
This talk about being anti-semitic makes me feel as if people didn't know 1) any jews and 2) what Israel does in the region. According to the definition of antisemitism thrown around here, a good chunk of the jewish israel population would be anti-semitic 😐
The current government in Israel has done a lot of biting the hands of their "allies" so I would approach it with caution.
I think the most serious point of contention on this thread is about allowing Iran to be a nuclear power to some capacity, not so much because of what Iran might do themselves, but because it might push its rival nations to follow the same path and arm themselves.
Originally posted by Star428
Israel is one of our most valuable allies simply because of their close ties with God Himself. I realize that's difficult for an atheist to understand and I'm sure I will get some LOLs from them along with the typical atheist remark "If your god has Israel's back then they don't need us" or some similar retarded comment. I really don't give a damn what they think though. Growing number of atheists is one of the underlying problems in this once-great nation anyway.If we turn our backs on Israel then God will likely do the same to us when we need Him. I hate bringing the subject of religion/God into the wrong forum but when people start talking trash about Israel it upsets me a little. If OV hadn't made his typical atheistic comment "Israel is a terrible ally" then I wouldn't have brought it into this forum.
And no, I'm not Jewish either.
Assuming god exists, you really think he/she/it would be THAT petty?
======
It isn't anti-semetic to accuse Isreal of being dicks. They've been terrible at times. I just feel bad for the people who aren't in power. They're getting a bad rap big time.
Originally posted by Star428
Israel is one of our most valuable allies simply because of their close ties with God Himself.
Are you arguing that christian countries should have reverence towards jews because they are the Chosen People? Are you implying that they are closer to God than christians? Should we assume that an authority chosen by some jews has a higher moral ground than other human authorities by default? Unless you're downright declaring that the Israel government represents God and the Jewish religion, that doesn't sound like a given to me.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Those things are massively different. I'm not playing on any Jewish stereotypes in my criticism of Israel. In fact, nothing I've said about Israel has anything to do with it being a Jewish country.There is literally nothing racist in my post, which is different from your minstrel show-like playing up of some stupid incident in a McDonalds to somehow deflect a legitimate criticism of systemic racism in America.
What you call different is a double standard, in which I caught you and now you back pedaling away from it. Face it, you got caught being a hypocrite and fancy talk and going to bail you out.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
What you call different is a double standard, in which I caught you and now you back pedaling away from it. Face it, you got caught being a hypocrite and fancy talk and going to bail you out.
I'd be the first to agree that Israel's policies are extremely hard handed a lot of times and that has, in turn, made them look really bad in the eyes of the world. But if you put yourself in their shoes, who could really blame then?
They live in a part of the world that practically every neighbor they have wants to see them destroyed. And they live in constant fear of terrorism. Where any sign of weakness can and will be exploited.
Remember 9/11? US got attacked once and they practically leveled 2 countries. Imagine living in a constant 9/11 world? You'd be pretty heavy handed yourself.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I'd be the first to agree that Israel's policies are extremely hard handed a lot of times and that has, in turn, made them look really bad in the eyes of the world. But if you put yourself in their shoes, who could really blame then?They live in a part of the world that practically every neighbor they have wants to see them destroyed. And they live in constant fear of terrorism. Where any sign of weakness can and will be exploited.
Remember 9/11? US got attacked once and they practically leveled 2 countries. Imagine living in a constant 9/11 world? You'd be pretty heavy handed yourself.
👆
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I'd be the first to agree that Israel's policies are extremely hard handed a lot of times and that has, in turn, made them look really bad in the eyes of the world. But if you put yourself in their shoes, who could really blame then?They live in a part of the world that practically every neighbor they have wants to see them destroyed. And they live in constant fear of terrorism. Where any sign of weakness can and will be exploited.
Remember 9/11? US got attacked once and they practically leveled 2 countries. Imagine living in a constant 9/11 world? You'd be pretty heavy handed yourself.
Someone gets it.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Stating disagreement isn't the same thing as refuting.
You act like its a walk in the park to be Israel. Imagine living in a world where everyone trying to take a swing at you and you have to be somewhat reserved on how you deal with it for fear of geo political ideology. Lets face it, there are more Islamic sympathizers then Israeli sympathizers.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
You act like its a walk in the park to be Israel. Imagine living in a world where everyone trying to take a swing at you and you have to be somewhat reserved on how you deal with it for fear of geo political ideology. Lets face it, there are more Islamic sympathizers then Israeli sympathizers.
Comments like these enrage people in Europe who are tired of seeing Israel get a pass for any abuses of the Palestinians just because they live in a "rough neighborhood," and who are accused of being "terrorist sympathizers" because they don't agree with the IDF bulldozing the houses of the families of militants.
If I said that the firebombing of Dresden in WW2 was militarily unnecessary and inhumane, would you accuse me of supporting Nazism?
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
You act like its a walk in the park to be Israel. Imagine living in a world where everyone trying to take a swing at you and you have to be somewhat reserved on how you deal with it for fear of geo political ideology. Lets face it, there are more Islamic sympathizers then Israeli sympathizers.
Yeah, and it's despicable.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
No I don't. I understand they live under siege. I just don't see why we should absolve them of all guilt. And how does their situation excuse the unchecked settlement building on land that's supposed to belong to the Palestinians even according to the Israeli government's own designation?Comments like these enrage people in Europe who are tired of seeing Israel get a pass for any abuses of the Palestinians just because they live in a "rough neighborhood," and who are accused of being "terrorist sympathizers" because they don't agree with the IDF bulldozing the houses of the families of militants.
If I said that the firebombing of Dresden in WW2 was militarily unnecessary and inhumane, would you accuse me of supporting Nazism?
You are kidding right? Ok so 20 years ago when Israeli gave up all that great land to Palestine, they burned all the advanced farming buildings and laid waste to it..they don't wanna give it up cause Palestine will prolly just destroy it. Why give up a perfectly good building to have it destroyed.