Originally posted by AncientPower
Because Ned, picking and choosing statements that conform to your personal view of Star Wars and dismissing those that don't is all the rage here these days.Double standards my friend, this is how far this section has fallen.
Dany, I actually don't really believe the Luke is that low. The purpose illustrate how far he was from Anakin. Neph sucks though.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Vitiate implies basically that he'd be everywhere in the galaxy at once, just enjoying life and doing everything he ever dreamed of. Obviously that would require an awful amount of power, perhaps...galactic level power. I mean, planetary level power did a little more than just increase his life. What makes you think one galaxy--a spec in the ocean compared to the entire universe--would put Vitiate on the level of universal beings? Yes, just by manipulating Mortis, the ones are operating on a universal scale. The son would warp Vitiate's galaxy and toy with him. They can warp Mortis--a focal point in which the power of the entire universe flows, and it's only there that their own powers can be contained according to the father. Outside of Mortis their powers are too great for the universe to handle, which is why they had to withdraw from it.
No one said Vitiate would become a universal being by consuming a galaxy.
But some people here make it sound like The Ones are as powerful as the force itself. They have vague accolades that put them on that level yet I've never seen you so eager to take that kind of an hype this seriously.
The Son can melt mountains with his lightning, shape planets' environments etc. They are not semi-omnipotent or omnipresent or omniscient. Not even close. They are individuals of great power. Greater than any sith/jedi. But that's it.
More importantly, I'd like to ask you these 2 questions: Do you think that Luke at his peak is 1/12 of a being that is comparable to Universal deities? And do you believe that Anakin's potential is at least 12 times greater than Lukes?
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Dany, I actually don't really believe the Luke is that low. The purpose illustrate how far he was from Anakin. Neph sucks though.
I agree actually, infact I agree with Filoni and have always believe that Luke was certainly not on council tier by ROTJ. Though the ease at which he replicates Vader's style is frightening.
Originally posted by AncientPower
I agree actually, infact I agree with Filoni and have always believe that Luke was certainly not on council tier by ROTJ. Though the ease at which he replicates Vader's style is frightening.
Yeah, but Luke ain't below Coleman Trebor lol. But yeah people like Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, would likely take him to town.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Open to interpretation? Lol so is the other conversation.
I'm pretty sure there's only one way to interpret "Anakin lost a lot of his potential, he could have become twice as powerful as Sidious." Pretty sure he also says that Luke could become what Anakin wasn't able to, stating that Luke possessed Anakin's potential more or less in tact and not in fact, 12 times less than him as you're so bizarrely arguing.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
He was that powerful. TPM also implies Yoda's and Anakins aren't that far apart but that the boy has a higher count that he does. Anakin certainly doesn't have twice the count of Yoda and yet by your own assertion he'd still be 200% of Sidious he should.It was an arbitrary statement. If I say Muhammad Ali is twice as strong as Joe Frazier, its not meant to be taken literally. Also this quote was made before the Ones even existed.
He wasn't even close and he never could have been off of Mortis. His count clearly was greatly bigger than anyone else's, but it also wasn't so immense that he was 20 times that of everyone else. Also I thought Yoda's count was higher than Sidious' it's just that he's retardedly old. Regardless though there's plenty of reasons to think that Anakin was powerful within reason and none to suggest he was a dozen times greater than anyone else.
If that's an arbitrary statement then so is the Prime of the Jedi crap. Lucas was making a direct comparison to Luke and Sidious in order to make a point, I don't see why it's so arbitrary. And Lucas had a big hand in making the One's so his vision is still very relevant to the facts.
SWTOR Encyclopedia reveals that Emperor Vitiate would surpass every being in power after completing his final ritual, become omnipotent with the potential to do anything.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
One Anchorite can manipulate weather and the entire environment of Mortis. Like Stark said.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Mortis is a conduit through which the power of the entire universe flows, and that is power beyond a single galaxy. If they can manipulate Mortis to such an extent then they could manipulate galaxies without a problem.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Outside of Mortis their powers are too great for the universe to handle, which is why they had to withdraw from it.
Abeloth forced them to flee to Mortis, an ancient relic of Celestials.
I take it that you haven't read all novels featuring Abeloth properly.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yes he is. Filoni directed TCWs which has the same level of canonicity as the movies, is in charge of the Rebels project which has the same. He has regular convos with GL. How is he not a canon source?
Because he isn't as per the LFL's canon policy. He speaks with some authority. Nothing more.
Originally posted by Trocity
I can't believe how many replies these threads get, I always hate these silly ones where there's absolutely no way of telling. Vitiate wankers claim he will level solar systems with a fart and Vitiate haters claim the ritual is very over exaggerated. There's no way to tell, these threads blow.
Actually, the OP is assuming that Vitiate would achieve what he wants to do and all the arguments are based on that. So "Vitiate haters" are saying that The Ones are still above him even though he would multiply his power by billions.
The 2 problems I have with some of the arguments here are Anakin having the potential to become a universal deity and the Ones being a universal deity.
Abeloth and Luke Skywalker already have refuted their claims but they choose to ignore it. :/
Not exactly. We have statements about Anakin, Luke and Abeloth that present them (and by extension the Ones) as far lesser than what Stark etc is arguing them to be. It's not mere opinions of ours.
And depending on how much stock you put in it, Legend is correct in that Swtore clearly states that were Vitiate to succeed in his ritual "the Emperor will conquer death itself and become the most powerful being in all of galactic history."
Originally posted by Nephthys
Not exactly. We have statements about Anakin, Luke and Abeloth that present them (and by extension the Ones) as far lesser than what Stark etc is arguing them to be. It's not mere opinions of ours.
And depending on how much stock you put in it, Legend is correct in that Swtore clearly states that were Vitiate to succeed in his ritual "the Emperor will conquer death itself and become the most powerful being in all of galactic history."
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
So your theories are better than their theories? That's what I took from that. Both are not grounded in anything but opinion.
Abeloth being like only 12 times stronger than Luke isn't my opinion. Anakin not having 12 times more potential than Luke is also not my opinion.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm pretty sure there's only one way to interpret "Anakin lost a lot of his potential, he could have become twice as powerful as Sidious." Pretty sure he also says that Luke could become what Anakin wasn't able to, stating that Luke possessed Anakin's potential more or less in tact and not in fact, 12 times less than him as you're so bizarrely arguing.
He didn't say Anakin could have been up to 200% as powerful as Sidious. He just said he could have been 200% as powerful as Sidious. Its obvious that he wasn't talking about power when Abeloth who's inferior to Father is clearly >>>> Luke when Anakin's potential is equal to or greater than the Father's. He stated Luke is what Anakin could have been. He didn't say Luke becomes as powerful as Anakin could have been. Its absurd to think that Luke would have the same potential as Anakin anyway considering he's a natural birth not a birth through the force itself.
He wasn't even close and he never could have been off of Mortis. His count clearly was greatly bigger than anyone else's, but it also wasn't so immense that he was 20 times that of everyone else. Also I thought Yoda's count was higher than Sidious' it's just that he's retardedly old. Regardless though there's plenty of reasons to think that Anakin was powerful within reason and none to suggest he was a dozen times greater than anyone else.
You have yet to explain why Anakin is unique on Mortis. You yourself have argued that a Force Nexus increases everyone's power an equal step rather than proportionately with their connection to the force as I do. AND EVEN IF we were to entertain that theory there's no proof Skywalker's connection to the force is greater than the Father's. As for this midichlorians argument. No not really. Kenobi says 'its over 20,000 not even Master Yoda has a count that high'. Not 'its over 20,000 that's over double Master Yoda's. And there's no proof of ANYONE's Midichlorian level sans Anakin so the point is moot.
If that's an arbitrary statement then so is the Prime of the Jedi crap. Lucas was making a direct comparison to Luke and Sidious in order to make a point, I don't see why it's so arbitrary. And Lucas had a big hand in making the One's so his vision is still very relevant to the facts.
Vision's change. So even if he meant what you are saying and Anakin's potential is exactly 200% of Sidious (which its not) that was well over 10 years before the Ones even existed and Anakin's full power was explored. Its like using a President's campaign slogan in as evidence of how he's changed foreign policy. The golden age of the Jedi quote is essential to the plot because it heightens the stakes of the entire PT plot. If the Jedi were on decline and would have dissolved anyway its not nearly as important of a plot, Sidious just helped it along a hundred years early. Anakin being 200% of Sidious or 1200% of Sidious changes nothing. The point of that statement is that Anakin would whoop Sidious' wrinkly ass at max power.