Darth Krayt vs. Plo Koon

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Krayt needed dark transfer to beat Cade.

He *did* beat Cade with Dark Transfer, which is not to say that's the only way he could've win.[/b][/quote]

Plo is more skilled and refined than Cade. He's a major jedi master council member, and he's strong.

Darth Nihl's a major sith inner circle member, and he's strong.

Antares Draco is the leader of the Imperial Knights, and he's strong.

Neither is stronger than Cade.

Cade has complete Jedi and Sith training, and spent 6 months hunting and killing sith between the main series and War. He's got tons of combat experience.

...not a fair matchup. Poor Plo is getting Pwned.

Originally posted by Q99
He *did* beat Cade with Dark Transfer, which is not to say that's the only way he could've win.

Why is this easy for you to get when it applies only to Krayt?

Originally posted by Q99
Darth Nihl's a major sith inner circle member, and he's strong.

Antares Draco is the leader of the Imperial Knights, and he's strong.

Neither is stronger than Cade.

Cade has complete Jedi and Sith training, and spent 6 months hunting and killing sith between the main series and War. He's got tons of combat experience.

When it comes to Krayt, arguments such as "so and so is strong and refined, and fancy title/term" suddenly become invalid.

Still, though, Plo has faced more powerful opponents than Cade has (not including Krayt of course), and is quite possibly the most powerful council member right under Yoda, Windu and Skywalker. And this is within an order in it's prime.

But, yes, Plo has no chance.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Krayt needed dark transfer to beat Cade.

Really? Krayt was virtually annihilating Cade in every facet; I daresay he would have been just as successful ramming him through with his second lightsaber as he would grabbing him with his hand.

EDIT: I realize you were just making a point, but I'm putting that out there.

Plo is more skilled and refined than Cade.

More refined? Probably, but then again, Cade's defeated several opponents that were much more refined than he.

Plo has faced more powerful opponents than Cade has...

True, but Cade's also fared better.

...quite possibly the most powerful Jedi Council Member right under Yoda, Windu, and Skywalker

I'm having reservations about Plo Koon being superior to Obi-Wan Kenobi. 😬

Though I'm guessing you just forgot about him, which would legitimize the claim.

But, yes, Plo has no chance.

👆

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I realize you were just making a point, but I'm putting that out there.

Then you should realize I'm aware of all of this.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
More refined? Probably, but then again, Cade's defeated several opponents that were much more refined than he.

I was making a point with this too. I made a claim that begs for proof without backing it up, something Q99 consistently does with characters not involving Krayt.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
True, but Cade's also fared better.

Not really. Plo's held Ventress off despite a wounded arm. And his performance against Savage was exceptional, given Savage's history of plowing through the saber defenses of majority of his opponents or causing them to be unbalanced through the strength of his saber attacks, and overpowering them with force attacks.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I'm having reservations about Plo Koon being superior to Obi-Wan Kenobi. 😬

Though I'm guessing you just forgot about him, which would legitimize the claim.

Well I did say possibly, but no I didn't forget about Kenobi. I don't find him as impressive as some do, though he can be underrated by non-PT fans. He just has a lot of exposure, but nothing to indicate he is conclusively above other council members, especially Plo. Plo's force feats impress me more, and they aren't far apart in sabers. Obi Wan has been overpowered by Savage rather casually and consistently, even when backed by Anakin. Plo held his own against Savage in just one shot, adapting to the physical advantages Savage holds over most jedi much quicker than Kenobi was able to, which wouldn't be the case if Obi Wan was his superior.

Not really. Plo's held Ventress off despite a wounded arm. And his performance against Savage was exceptional, given Savage's history of plowing through the saber defenses of majority of his opponents or causing them to be unbalanced through the strength of his saber attacks, and overpowering them with force attacks.

That's not what I was saying. Plo's definitely had impressive showings against stronger opponents, but Cade a lot of the time pretty much crushes his opposition. Thus even if they're weaker, the feats can still potentially be just as good depending on how Cade's opponents stack up to Ventress and Savage.

Plo's force feats impress me more,

What Force Feats in particular?

they aren't far apart in sabers.

Depends on how you define "far". Kenobi's displayed better physicals in every area, and performed better against more skilled opponents; Grievous and Dooku in particular.

Obi Wan has been overpowered by Savage even when backed by Anakin

Savage has also been overpowered by Kenobi even when backed by Maul. I personally find that to be the more consistent one, really, considering that Savage was operating far above his status quo in the fight you're referring to--unless you're implying Savage can ragdoll Dooku under normal circumstances of course.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Well I did say possibly, but no I didn't forget about Kenobi. I don't find him as impressive as some do, though he can be underrated by non-PT fans. He just has a lot of exposure, but nothing to indicate he is conclusively above other council members, especially Plo. Plo's force feats impress me more, and they aren't far apart in sabers. Obi Wan has been overpowered by Savage rather casually and consistently, even when backed by Anakin. Plo held his own against Savage in just one shot, adapting to the physical advantages Savage holds over most jedi much quicker than Kenobi was able to, which wouldn't be the case if Obi Wan was his superior.

Damn that made me rethink stuff.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
That's not what I was saying. Plo's definitely had impressive showings against stronger opponents, but Cade a lot of the time pretty much crushes his opposition. Thus even if they're weaker, the feats can still potentially be just as good depending on how Cade's opponents stack up to Ventress and Savage.

So comparable? That's fair. Though some of the opponents he's swiftly and easily defeated have also given him good challenges on other occasions.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
What Force Feats in particular?

He's manipulated escape pods, and broke off separatist ship attachments (TCW, Malevolence arc). In another episode, with the help of Ahsoka, he's held together a stardestroyer which was on the verge of tearing apart. If you google Plo's feats, a gallery link from Silver 2467 should appear, which has a picture of Plo demolishing an entire cave/mountain by simply clinching his fist, among other showings. And, of course, his various other environmental manipulation feats such as electric judgment and, well, freezing creeks (lol).

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Depends on how you define "far". Kenobi's displayed better physicals in every area, and performed better against more skilled opponents; Grievous and Dooku in particular.

Dooku wasted Kenobi, so not much of a feat for him. Regardless, Plo's never faced them. Judging by his performance against Savage and quickly adapting to Savage's style and his strength, whereas it took Obi Wan try after try of getting beat down just to finally adapt to Savage's advantages, I'd say Plo is more than able to duplicate Kenobi's showings. Especially if you note Plo's disadvantage against Ventress, who is shown to be Kenobi's equal.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Savage has also been overpowered by Kenobi even when backed by Maul. I personally find that to be the more consistent one, really, considering that Savage was operating far above his status quo in the fight you're referring to--unless you're implying Savage can ragdoll Dooku under normal circumstances of course.

I wouldn't. Maul has overpowered Kenobi consistently and could have killed him on numerous occasions (backed by some source Intrepid provided when he was here), and their fight in the cave had the bros underestimating Kenobi and only trying to capture him, with Maul still possessing those bulky and awkward legs. Not to mention, that Kenobi's injuring of Savage owed more to Savage's sloppy stance, and Kenobi's focus, taking advantage of the obvious opening Savage left, otherwise Kenobi was on the verge of being overpowered. He never overpowered Savage. He did hold him off before that particular sequence of the fight, but that was due to the gap in skill, and Kenobi finally adapting to Savage's advantages, which took several shots.

On Toydaria, Savage held the upper hand against both Kenobi and Skywalker while not trying to fight, but trying to kidnap the king.

Originally posted by Sinious
Damn that made me rethink stuff.

What stuff?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
What stuff?

Where Koon stands. I still have Kenobi above him but I always thought the gap was quite big between them.

Though I wouldn't really take Kenobi+Anakin combat showings that seriously. They're just so inconsistent.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
So comparable? That's fair. Though some of the opponents he's swiftly and easily defeated have also given him good challenges on other occasions.

Not really; Cade improved throughout his story arc. While Talon gave him trouble in the early-mid Legacy stories, by the end she was outmatched by her own admission.

The only inconsistent outlier was in Claws of the Dragon, but Talon was injured.

He's manipulated escape pods, and broke off separatist ship attachments (TCW, Malevolence arc).

I know of these; really the question was what Force Feats that Kenobi couldn't do.

In another episode, with the help of Ahsoka, he's held together a stardestroyer which was on the verge of tearing apart.

Holy shit, I've never heard of this. Link?

EDIT: Oh, it was only a very small portion of the cruiser's bridge; not all that much bigger than a Shuttle, really.

If you google Plo's feats, a gallery link from Silver 2467 should appear, which has a picture of Plo demolishing an entire cave/mountainby simply clinching his fist,

That was a very small cave, a far cry from a mountain. IIRC he only sealed the cave's entrance, also.

Again, Kenobi's done better than this. Casually bringing down huge trees, holding massive slabs of metal aloft, manipulating Durge's starship, deflecting telekinetic blasts from Anakin, BFR'ing Grievous, telekinetically inducing massive waves, tossing speeders, all are excellent feats.

Dooku wasted Kenobi

Not in sabers he didn't.

Especially if you note Plo's disadvantage against Ventress, who is shown to be Kenobi's equal.

Only in earlier stories.

Maul has overpowered Kenobi consistently and could have killed him on numerous occasions

Consistently? TPM notwithstanding, he's only had the upper hand against Kenobi once in a duel.

Also, Intrepid's assertion there was a bit of a stretch considering the material itself.

On Toydaria, Savage held the upper hand against both Kenobi and Skywalker while not trying to fight, but trying to kidnap the king.

Not really. The only time in that fight Savage was in an advantageous position was when Kenobi tried to tackle him. 😐

That might not have been his brightest move.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Holy shit, I've never heard of this. Link?

It's shitty quality, and it's sped up slightly, but it should give you what you're looking for.

It looked like just part of the bridge to me tbh.

Uh, yeah. Just the bridge, lol.

*the tip of one of the bridges

Just the tip...

Please, that's what they all say. 🙄

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Ant, shut up lol. You wouldn't even begin to know how to compare the two.

Oh yeah, because I totally didn't read Legacy (link to my Cade Skywalker thread) and Fate of the Jedi (link to my FOTJ threads), or help Aurbere with his Plo Koon thread and read it over three times (link to Aurbere's thread).

Your credibility of saying Plo > Kenobi places you around Fated Xtasy level based on your arguments for it. You keep on digging a hole bro, not much more I can say.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
In another episode, with the help of Ahsoka, he's held together a stardestroyer which was on the verge of tearing apart.

Lost credibility. 👆

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Oh yeah, because I totally didn't read Legacy (link to my Cade Skywalker thread) and Fate of the Jedi (link to my FOTJ threads), or help Aurbere with his Plo Koon thread and read it over three times (link to Aurbere's thread).

Your credibility of saying Plo > Kenobi places you around Fated Xtasy level based on your arguments for it. You keep on digging a hole bro, not much more I can say.

I said you couldn't even begin to compare them, which you can't.

Gaining knowledge of something is easy. Comparing and contrasting abilities is something I have yet to see you be good at. You don't even know the difference, though, so... However, I see what you did with your last Revan respect thread; you took SKILLS approach of analyzing Revan after I had told you how convincing SKILLS argument was.

Is Xstacy being used as an insult? Because you do realize he has shown to be your superior in comparing/contrasting character feats. That's the honest truth.

Dayum.

I said you couldn't even begin to compare them, which you can't.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
However, I see what you did with your last Revan respect thread; you took SKILLS approach of analyzing Revan after I had told you how convincing SKILLS argument was.

😖 What, lol? I don't recall making a thread supporting Dooku to ease you into liking Revan. The last thread I made was the Darth Revan Power Thread, which was entirely based on my ideas with the help of Aurbere. I haven't spoken to Skillz in a month. In fact, I totally forget he even debated with you until you brought it up in the EU section. 👆

Try again.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Lost credibility. 👆

Indeed. Ahsoka and Plo only held up a portion of a ship's bridge roughly the size of a small shuttle. I pointed that out in my respect thread for Plo Koon.

So, this. 👆