Originally posted by DarthAnt66---
SWTOR's head debater just admitted S66 has no credibility. Fascinating.
Don't know about head debater, but SKILLS is without a doubt the most skilled TOR debater so far. I don't even know who Aurbere is lmao. His opinion is irrelevant.
Anywho, your obsession with my credibility aside, yes I'd like to see you make an analysis on the topic. Other than being a pool of knowledge for Revan (BTW, did you finish your advertisement video for your biggest Revan respect thread ever!!![I've never seen one try so hard to be internet famous]), prove your good at other things, well, besides also being a "forced servant."
Go, I'm rooting for you.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Not really; Cade improved throughout his story arc. While Talon gave him trouble in the early-mid Legacy stories, by the end she was outmatched by her own admission.The only inconsistent outlier was in Claws of the Dragon, but Talon was injured.
You may be right. For now I'm only going off of memory, but I recall him easily removing Talon rather casually a couple of times early on, then suddenly having the fight of his life.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I know of these; really the question was what Force Feats that Kenobi couldn't do.
Other than perhaps the tree feat, I don't see how any of the feats you listed are quite as good as Plo easily manipulating space vehicles, and tearing off and pushing a ship attachment. The feat with Durge's ship is quite good but his moving it wasn't as profound as Plo's manipulation of the space transports.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Holy shit, I've never heard of this. Link?
Not as impressive as I remembered, TBH, but good, considering it was about to fall apart.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
That was a very small cave, a far cry from a mountain. IIRC he only sealed the cave's entrance, also.
I didn't mean to suggest it was similar to mount Everest in size, but caves are usually small mountains with openings. Even in the scan, it's referred to as a mountain. It also seemed to be the entire cave. Regardless, the entrance alone is big enough to hold several men. Plo collapsing the entire area just by clinching his fist is quite impressive and isn't different than demolishing a small building. He's not even fully unleashing himself. I'd need to see Kenobi's tree feat in full context to assume he is capable of doing the same with the same casualness as Plo.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
deflecting telekinetic blasts from Anakin
No, they stalemated in a direct force shove match, which is quite inconsistent, considering the power gap, unless Anakin's mindset hindered his force power too.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
BFR'ing Grievous
Any powerful jedi should be capable of this provided they have opening and Grievous isn't all over them.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
telekinetically inducing massive waves
Direct application of TK requires more power and concentration than pushes/waves. Plo was able to directly apply TK with enough force to crumble a large entrance, so unleashing massive waves should be for him.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Not in sabers he didn't.
In season 6 he did. Not to mention Ventress, who is around Kenobi's equal, couldn't even gain the upper hand against a drugged and blind Dooku despite the help of two other nightsisters.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Only in earlier stories; late Kenobi is a good bit stronger, judging from feats.
What feats? His last fight against Ventress was pretty late in the war, and she could actually have killed him had Anakin not been there. He's only shown to do better than her against Savage because Savage's strength advantage over her is greater than it is over Kenobi.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Consistently? TPM notwithstanding, he's only had the upper hand against Kenobi once in a duel.
In sith hunters, Maul could have killed Kenobi with the force alone while fighting off another jedi. True, the area was stated to be strong with the dark side, but I think that was due to the bros presence. Regardless, Maul easily gripped Kenobi in the cave fight but just tossed him aside. Then when he decided to end the fight he through Kenobi with enough force that part of the cave collapsed, disarming and trapping Kenobi. Then, In The Lawless, he disarmed and choked Kenobi with the force, again. Maul has a noticeable force advantage.
All that considered, Intrepid's source was pretty accurate. And if Maul's going to hold back his greatest advantage and turn down opportunities to kill Obi Wan then that's pretty solid evidence that he's not going to try his absolute hardest in a saber fight. That wouldn't even make sense unless he's testing his own skills as a saber duelist. Not to mention, his saber victory over Kenobi was pretty convincing, considering he hadn't picked up a saber in over a decade, and wasn't yet accustomed to huge awkward legs.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Not really. The entirety of the fight was an ungraceful tacklefest, there was little to no actual dueling involved. Even then Savage wasn't in any kind of advantageous position.
Except for easily tossing them around even when attacked from behind. It showed a large gap in strength, which is what Kenobi was having a hard time adapting to, as shown in their one on one, when Savage disarmed him.
Adapting is indicative of saber skill, and Plo adapted to all of Savage's advantages in a single round.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66What feats? His last fight against Ventress was pretty late in the war, and she could actually have killed him had Anakin not been there.
That was no more than mid way through TCW.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Adapting is indicative of saber skill, and Plo adapted to all of Savage's advantages in a single round.
Plo Koon got kicked to the floor and had his mask ripped off in that fight. Savage's strength got the better of him so Koon didn't adapt to anything. He simply lost.
Kenobi has never definitively lost to Opress. Savage has tossed Kenobi around a few times, but he's never definitively beaten Kenobi without help.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Not in sabers he didn't.
He was soundly defeating Kenobi in a Saber match up in S6. Kenobi clearly required Anakin's help to survive that fight. Whilst Dooku also of course trashed Kenobi with TK in ROTS.
So I'm not sure why people keep comparing Kenobi to Dooku or giving Obi-Wan any credit based on his fights against the Count, unless you count that probably non-canon game cut scene where early TCW Obi-Wan apparently defeats Dooku by himself (that game's always a good way to start a riot 😛).
Give Kenobi credit for his fights against Maul, Opress, Skywalker or even OT Vader. But there's honestly no credit to give him for his fights against Dooku.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He was soundly defeating Kenobi in a Saber match up in S6. Kenobi clearly required Anakin's help to survive that fight. Whilst Dooku also of course trashed Kenobi with TK in ROTS.So I'm not sure why people keep comparing Kenobi to Dooku or giving Obi-Wan any credit based on his fights against the Count, unless you count that probably non-canon game cut scene where early TCW Obi-Wan apparently defeats Dooku by himself (that game's always a good way to start a riot 😛).
Give Kenobi credit for his fights against Maul, Opress, Skywalker or even OT Vader. But there's honestly no credit to give him for his fights against Dooku.
Anyway, what game was that? Imho it should be possible with favourable circumstances, where Kenobi would be able to capitalize on his strengths.
Other than perhaps the tree feat, I don't see how any of the feats you listed are quite as good as Plo easily manipulating space vehicles,
Kenobi manipulated a larger space vehicle.
The feat with Durge's ship is quite good but his moving it wasn't as profound as Plo's manipulation of the space transports.
If he's moving it fast enough to crush Super Battle Droids, I'd say that's pretty profound.
Also, what's profound about manipulating a pod when there is no gravity to work against?
No, they stalemated in a direct force shove match, which is quite inconsistent, considering the power gap, unless Anakin's mindset hindered his force power too.
I'm not talking about that instance specifically; the novel details that Kenobi deflected telekinetic blasts from Anakin during the off-screen portion of the battle as well.
Direct application of TK requires more power and concentration than pushes/waves. Plo was able to directly apply TK with enough force to crumble a large entrance, so unleashing massive waves should be for him.
By wave I mean like, a wave. With water.
In season 6 he did.
Well, Season 6 isn't RotS--where we see Kenobi performing better than the Count, if anything.
In sith hunters, Maul could have killed Kenobi with the force alone while fighting off another jedi. True, the area was stated to be strong with the dark side,
Irrelevant, I was referencing dueling prowess. And claiming that Maul is significantly more hesitant to kill Kenobi than vice versa, or pulling his punches, is a little odd. Especially because the quote in question only really said that Maul wanted to make Kenobi suffer. I even recall it was in reference to the events on Mandalore specifically, which were very different circumstances than previous encounters, though I could be wrong.
Adapting is indicative of saber skill, and Plo adapted to all of Savage's advantages in a single round.
Hardly, he lost solidly.
Originally posted by Arhael
I wouldn't consider it soundly defeating. Dooku was only gained distance with kick and hip throw and he was able to do it because Kenobi was on the offensive, which is not really his thing.
Kicks and physical hits are part of the combat. In any case the point being there's nothing there to say Obi-Wan performed well in those fights.
When defending Obi-Wan's prowess people should stick to his better fights IMO- Maul, Opress, Anakin.
I just think Dooku has Obi-Wan's number in a way most other combatants don't.
Originally posted by Arhael
Anyway, what game was that? Imho it should be possible with favourable circumstances, where Kenobi would be able to capitalize on his strengths.
This one:
?v=7h_wnWlk518
Personally seems pretty unlikely to me considering it was early CW. Not long after AOTC.
Also it apparently contradicts the Clone Wars story it's based on according to some posters here, but I've not bothered to check that for myself.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
This one:?v=7h_wnWlk518
Personally seems pretty unlikely to me considering it was early CW. Not long after AOTC.
Also it apparently contradicts the Clone Wars story it's based on according to some posters here, but I've not bothered to check that for myself.
Yup directly contradicts the episode. Kenobi is seen on the bridge of his cruiser with no evidence of a fight during the Malevolence. +His cruiser couldn't be attacked because it was in Hyperspace.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Kenobi manipulated a larger space vehicle.
When?
Originally posted by NewGuy01
If he's moving it fast enough to crush Super Battle Droids, I'd say that's pretty profound.
True.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Also, what's profound about manipulating a pod when there is no gravity to work against?
Because the mass of the object is still the same. Gravity only plays a major roll when lifting an object against the force of gravity First. For instance, bench pressing 250 is a lot harder than pushing it. Now lifting those objects on a planet with gravity similar to earth's would be a better feat no doubt, but that doesn't take away from Plo easily manipulating such objects with incredible ease.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
By wave I mean like, a wave. With water.
Oh, ok. Yeah, that's probably one of the most refined uses of TK in the mythos.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, Season 6 isn't RotS--where we see Kenobi performing better than the Count, if anything.
There isn't much of a time gap between the two confrontations. In the movie, Kenobi was in the fight for only some seconds, and while Dooku was on the fleeting end early on in the duel, I'd say that was more of Anakin's physical strength taxing him, with Dooku having a hard time simply cutting Obi Wan to pieces because of the performance Anakin alone was putting up, making Obi Wan's presence serving as nothing more than a mere distraction for Dooku to get rid of.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Irrelevant, I was referencing dueling prowess. And claiming that Maul is significantly more hesitant to kill Kenobi than vice versa, or pulling his punches, is a little odd. Especially because the quote in question only really said that Maul wanted to make Kenobi suffer. I even recall it was in reference to the events on Mandalore specifically, which were very different circumstances than previous encounters, though I could be wrong.
In every single encounter, Maul wanted Obi Wan to suffer rather than simply kill him. You can choose to ignore all the instances I provided, but they're there regardless. Maul's intent was for Obi Wan to suffer as he did regardless of the way it was done. And if I remember correctly, the source stated Maul turned down 'numerous' opportunities, which would imply more than his one time capture of Kenobi on Mandalore. Even in their first encounter, Maul waited for an unconscious Obi Wan to wake before he decided to torture him. Maul's actions and his own word in sith hunters also indicate as much: he never wanted to kill Kenobi outright.
My point is, Maul never fully unleashed himself on Kenobi as to preserve his life in order to cause him to suffer before killing him. And If Maul is going to hold back a quick killing blow and his major advantage over Obi Wan (the force), why should I assume he would go all out in a strict saber duel? What would be the purpose?
There's nothing odd about my claim when Maul himself made it very clear on numerous of occasions. That was Maul's obsessive intent.
Also, there is nothing to indicate Kenobi would go to such extremes to keep Maul alive as Maul did, let alone hesitate on killing him.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Hardly, he lost solidly.
At most, he lost fair and square, but he certainly did much better against him in one shot than Kenobi did in about three. The fight was quite even until Plo lost.
Originally posted by The Merchant
Plo Koon was able to force push some boarding ship pretty easily. If you calculate it then his force push would be equal to a 3 Kiloton explosion.
Link?
Aside from feats, Plo just seems to be depicted as one of the wisest and most powerful of the council. Or, well, that's the vibe I get from his portrayal.
Originally posted by The Merchant
https://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=22256&goto=next
Yes, that's the feat I was referring to. I thought your post read "crush."
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Link?Aside from feats, Plo just seems to be depicted as one of the wisest and most powerful of the council. Or, well, that's the vibe I get from his portrayal.
If you had education on his character you would know your speculation is actually supported. 👆
"Level-headed and unflappably calm, Jedi Master Plo Koon is among the wisest in the Jedi Order."
―Star Wars Databank: Plo Koon
"Plo Koon is a member of the Jedi High Council and a Jedi General in the Clone Wars. Koon is one of the most powerful Jedi ever, with awesome fighting ability, strong telekinetic powers and superb piloting skills.
―Star Wars: Character Encyclopedia
---
Of course, I don't expect you to know of this stuff. Hasn't been the first time you debated material you knew little about. 🙄
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66Aside from feats, Plo just seems to be depicted as one of the wisest and most powerful of the council. Or, well, that's the vibe I get from his portrayal.
That's always the impression I got as well. And was hoping TCW would have given him some nice feats considering he was a recurring character on the show but no such luck.
Another piece of EU evidence of Plo's prowess compared to other Jedi is Shadow Hunter where Maul says he wants to face/ defeat one of the great Jedi warriors mentioning Plo and Mace.
But the main piece of evidence is that he just looks so damn cool Lol.