Anakin Skywalker vs HoT

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yes, yes, you've maintained the position that feats you don't like from the prequel/original era are exaggerated and don't count. That's selective application. At least with nexuses, I'll hold Sidious to the same standard. uhuh

Please, keep saying that its just because I don't like them. You haven't quite strawmanned me enough yet. That you don't even try to argue the realities and resort to piss-poor personal attacks amuses me.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You... don't see his anger? Your willful ignorance is most certainly not gratifying. ahuh

No more than yours. But then, you've a habit of deluding yourself about how affected you've made people to gratify your ego.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Who said anything about "unfairly"? It's not my fault that the characters you like largely constitute a rogues gallery of nobodies and obscurities that will be forgotten in the next decade whereas characters I like are by and large well-received, popular, memorable, and important in the grand scheme of things and are portrayed accordingly.

Maybe you and Dmb should consider joining my camp? excellent

{Except Turr Phennir, goddammit.}

But like I said, it doesn't change anything. The fact that some characters have more exposure than others isn't grounds to carve into the source material as a means of equalizing things.

Nor have I used that fact as grounds to do. I'm merely pointing out that you acting sooooo wounded by my utter unfairness and double standards rings a bit hollow in the face of that fact. And accusations of me "wanting PT characters to suck" is just laughable considering it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But then, you've a habit of deluding yourself about how affected you've made people to gratify your ego.

LOL pretty much Tempest in one sentence.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
mmm

I'll play Devil's advocate here and reframe the question. Why, when considering creative intent as you did earlier, should Nihilus or Vitiate or any character not named The Son be as or more powerful than Darth Sidious, the Big Bad of the saga? The guy who in George's words represents "The Devil"?

I'm not necessarily talking about in narrative terms. Nor did I say anything about him being as good or better than Sidious. Bringing him up is a complete red herring. But Sidious being the Big Bad doesn't mean he has to be the bestest at everything and be completely unrivaled. Lucas himself already made 3 characters that eclipses him. Take Star Trek, Khan was also meant to represent Satan. But they never had any issues with creating characters who were smarter, or physically superior or larger threats than him.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'll play Devil's advocate here and reframe the question. Why, when considering creative intent as you did earlier, should Nihilus or Vitiate or any character not named The Son be as or more powerful than Darth Sidious, the Big Bad of the saga? The guy who in George's words represents "The Devil"?

That's my point, thanks. I would only add "the guy who is stated to be the strongest Sith in history by many sources".

Originally posted by Nephthys
Please, keep saying that its just because I don't like them. You haven't quite strawmanned me enough yet. That you don't even try to argue the realities and resort to piss-poor personal attacks amuses me.

Oh of course you're "amused."

If the standard involved more than your petty dislike, you'd have applied it elsewhere. That you don't and in fact refuse to tells me all I need to know about your agenda here.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No more than yours. But then, you've a habit of deluding yourself about how affected you've made people to gratify your ego.

You may pretend that you and Dmb aren't well known for outage and tantrums, if you wish. excellent

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nor have I used that fact as grounds to do. I'm merely pointing out that you acting sooooo wounded by my utter unfairness and double standards rings a bit hollow in the face of that fact. And accusations of me "wanting PT characters to suck" is just laughable considering it.

Your reputation speaks for itself, my son. My issue with you using double standards is that it doesn't actually do you any good, since you can't win anyway, and only serves to obstruct meaningful dialogue.

In other words, assume our conversations are a penis and it ejaculates The Truth. Your antics constitute a particularly distressing case of The Clap. uhuh

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not necessarily talking about in narrative terms. Nor did I say anything about him being as good or better than Sidious. Bringing him up is a complete red herring.

Well we're not debating this, it's just an enlightening conversation.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But Sidious being the Big Bad doesn't mean he has to be the bestest at everything and be completely unrivaled.

What does it mean, then? mmm

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lucas himself already made 3 characters that eclipses him. Take Star Trek, Khan was also meant to represent Satan. But they never had any issues with creating characters who were smarter, or physically superior or larger threats than him.

Where was Khan said to represent Satan?

Tempest is like an uncute version of Ant.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Tempest is like an uncute version of Ant.

Well that was extraordinarily hurtful.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Oh of course you're "amused."

If the standard involved more than your petty dislike, you'd have applied it elsewhere. That you don't and in fact refuse to tells me all I need to know about your agenda here.

I have, with TFU. Which I happened to like. I just recognise that it's absurdly exaggerated. Which is the whole point. Just like the whole point of the OCW was to be as over the top as possible, like Samurai Jack. I can't think of anything else that was purposefully exaggerated. Otherwise I probably would apply the same standards.

In fact, that I don't apply it elsewhere just proves that I'm not doing it out of mere dislike. There are other things I dislike that I don't try to call shenanigans on. Dark Empire, a few of the Luke things etc. I only apply it to the cases were its clear that the material is an exaggeration.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You may pretend that you and Dmb aren't well known for outage and tantrums, if you wish. excellent

You mean known to you. Because you keep giggling to yourself about how supa mad you made us. Suuuure.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Your reputation speaks for itself, my son. My issue with you using double standards is that it doesn't actually do you any good, since you can't win anyway, and only serves to obstruct meaningful dialogue.

In other words, assume our conversations are a penis and it ejaculates The Truth. Your antics are constitute particularly distressing case of The Clap. uhuh

Well I'm pretty sure that's not your actual issue but ok whatever.

And I'm not as familiar with STD's as you evidently are so I have no clue what that means but I'm pretty sure you're just dropping the point so ok whatever x 2.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Well we're not debating this, it's just an enlightening conversation.

What does it mean, then? mmm

Where was Khan said to represent Satan?

But it still had nothing to do with what I was talking about. Other than that you clearly feel so threatened by Nihilus' power that him surpassing Sidious is a readily apparent issue to you.

That he just happens to be the biggest bad guy for the movies. You're attaching unwarranted importance in his abilities.

One of the big themes of the movie is that it's a parallel with Paradise Lost. There's a copy on Khan's bookshelf. It's less obvious than the Moby Dick thing but it's clearly there. Khan's the Lucifer standin.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I have, with TFU. Which I happened to like. I just recognise that it's absurdly exaggerated. Which is the whole point. Just like the whole point of the OCW was to be as over the top as possible, like Samurai Jack. I can't think of anything else that that was purposefully exaggerated.

In fact, that I don't apply it elsewhere just proves that I'm not doing it out of mere dislike. There are other things I dislike that I don't try to call shenanigans on. Dark Empire, a few of the Luke things etc. I only apply it to the cases were its clear that the material is an exaggeration.

Ah, our endless dance. You keep shouting "it's not selective!" but that's all you've ever revealed it to be. A selective recognition.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean known to you. Because you keep giggling to yourself about how supa mad you made us. Suuuure.

You've gone on-record before how I get under your skin. I like to think it's still residual sexual tension.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well I'm pretty sure that's not your actual issue but ok whatever.

And I'm not as familiar with STD's as you evidently are so I have no clue what that means but I'm pretty sure you're just dropping the point so ok whatever x 2.

{insert obligatory "your mom" joke here, I'm too lazy atm}

Originally posted by Nephthys
But it still had nothing to do with what I was talking about. Other than you feel so threatened by Nihilus' power that him surpassing Sidious is an apparent issue to you.

McP seemed to find it germane to your conversation. You two were discussing characters and creative intent.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That he just happens to be the biggest bad guy for the movies. You're attaching unwarranted importance in his abilities.

So Nihilus is supposed to be cosmically crazy powerful and a threat to all existence and other wanktastic appellations per creative intent whereas Palpatine is just supposed to be the biggest movie bad guy...?

Can't help but detect a conservative interpretation when it comes to my man Palps, Neph.

Originally posted by Nephthys
One of the big themes of the movie is that it's a parallel with Paradise Lost. There's a copy on Khan's bookshelf. It's less obvious than the Moby Dick thing but it's clearly there. Khan's the Lucifer standin.

Well... that's a bit disingenuous, isn't it? Clearly Lucas wasn't evoking the depiction of Lucifer in Paradise Lost as a vaguely anti-heroic tragic protagonist, but the Biblical Devil of the Judeo-Christian faith.

Bit different.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Ah, our endless dance. You keep shouting "it's not selective!" but that's all you've ever revealed it to be. A selective recognition.

That sure is a statement that doesn't respond to anything I said!

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You've gone on-record before how I get under your skin. I like to think it's still residual sexual tension.

{insert obligatory "your mom" joke here, I'm too lazy atm}

Bluh.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
McP seemed to find it germane to your conversation. You two were discussing characters and creative intent.

Then he should have brought it up, instead of you butting in and dropping it at random.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

So Nihilus is supposed to be cosmically crazy powerful and a threat to all existence and other wanktastic appellations per creative intent whereas Palpatine is just supposed to be the biggest movie bad guy...?

Can't help but detect a conservative interpretation when it comes to my man Palps, Neph.

Like I said, Nihilus' immense power is pretty much the basis for his character and most of the time devoted to him is in building him up as a threat because of his godlike power that makes the player feel hopelessly outmatched. Which is supposed to make it more satisfying when you beat him. The threat he represents is his power.

Sidious however, is mainly a threat because of his political power and skills at manipulation. His power is basically never mentioned or indicated outside of him obviously needing to be superior to Vader, Maul and Dooku since they're his apprentices. So narratively there's no need for him to be godly powerful and the best in history. He just needs to be powerful enough to do the things he does and to be a match for Yoda as the leader of their respective Order's. Lucas puts no special emphasis on Sidious' power like Nihilus gets.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Well... that's a bit disingenuous, isn't it? Clearly Lucas wasn't evoking the depiction of Lucifer in Paradise Lost as a vaguely anti-heroic tragic protagonist, but the Biblical Devil of the Judeo-Christian faith.

Bit different.

And Lucas invokes that through his seduction of Anakin and that he's really ****ing evil and he loves it, not through his power.

Neph, you still don't get it. I consider feats like killing the whole planet by a voice, giga-drain, idea of Force sever being unstopable technique and telekinetically holding a ship in one piece as exaggerations far worse, then old CW.

Sidious is called "the most powerful Sith Lord in history", and that quote concerns on his battle abilities. Every source, that suggest that Nihilus, Vitiate or anyone else had superior feats to Sidious is just an exaggeration.

And your another response to me is not necessary. You wont be able to find nothing, that would change my mind. I wont be able to change your mind as well.

.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That sure is a statement that doesn't respond to anything I said!

Sure it is. You say it's not selective, I say it is. When you start rifling through non-movie eras in the EU with the same standard, we'll talk. But you don't. And why you don't has already been made clear: you think the deck is "unfairly" stacked against you and believe the removal of "outlier" feats and sources will help you gain some footing.

That's textbook agenda there, my son.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bluh.

Well said.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Then he should have brought it up, instead of you butting in and dropping it at random.

You want a private exchange? Take it to PMs. Otherwise, it's fodder for the rest of us to butt in and do as well please. excellent

Originally posted by Nephthys
Like I said, Nihilus' immense power is pretty much the basis for his character and most of the time devoted to him is in building him up as a threat because of his godlike power that makes the player feel hopelessly outmatched. Which is supposed to make it more satisfying when you beat him. The threat he represents is his power.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bluh.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious however, is mainly a threat because of his political power and skills at manipulation. His power is basically never mentioned or indicated outside of him obviously needing to be superior to Vader, Maul and Dooku since they're his apprentices. So narratively there's no need for him to be godly powerful and the best in history. He just needs to be powerful enough to do the things he does and to be a match for Yoda as the leader of their respective Order's. Lucas puts no special emphasis on Sidious' power like Nihilus gets.

Sidious's power is never mentioned or indicated? 😂

Given that canon!Sith philosophy apparently revolves around the concept of superiority, you do realize I could make the argument that Sidious has to ultimately be the best Sith Lord by virtue of his position as the reigning Master?

It seems that your spontaneous cataracts impede you here, as well. Face it, dude. Palpatine's position requires him to be the best Sith Lord. He's the guy who actually wins. He's gotta be smarter, stronger, faster, more agile, more skilled, more patient, more knowledgeable, and better looking than his apprentices or predecessors. The only evil doer who's better is the actual living manifestation of the dark side.

You're goofy. But thanks for proving my point. 👆

Originally posted by Nephthys
And Lucas invokes that through his seduction of Anakin and that he's really ****ing evil and he loves it, not through his power.

Pretty sure Jabba The Hutt would qualify then. Or Tarkin. Or Grievous. Or any other inherently malevolent figure. Stop being silly. Palpatine's great power is inherent to the character.

Originally posted by McP
Neph, you still don't get it. I consider feats like killing the whole planet by a voice, giga-drain, idea of Force sever being unstopable technique and telekinetically holding a ship in one piece as exaggerations far worse, then old CW.

Sidious is called "the most powerful Sith Lord in history", and that quote concerns on his battle abilities. Every source, that suggest that Nihilus, Vitiate or anyone else had superior feats to Sidious is just an exaggeration.

And your another response to me is not necessary. You wont be able to find nothing, that would change my mind. I wont be able to change your mind as well.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
he has better feats

You sure about that?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You sure about that?

Force Storm is a more impressive feat. And while Nihilus was great at applying drain on masses, we don't know if he can do it against very powerful individuals.

Originally posted by WildBantha88
the thing that comes closest to nihilus draining entire planets is his DE Force Storms but even that couldn't wipe out a planet in one go. So yea superior feats 👆

Who says it couldn't?

Originally posted by Sinious
Force Storm is a more impressive feat. And while Nihilus was great at applying drain on masses, we don't know if he can do it against very powerful individuals.