Tbh I'm kinda speculative on the whole conflict bit, Luke and Vader kinda went back and forth on it.
Luke: "I feek the good in you..the conflict."
Vader: "There is no conflict."
Luke: "You couldn't bring yourself to kill me before and I don't believe you'll destroy me now."
Vader: "You underestimate the power of the darkside, if you will not fight. Then you will meet your destiny!"
Vader clearly throws his saber at Luke trying to kill him, which Luke clearly dodges it, he also seems to have no hesitation in striking down a defenseless Luke per this quote.
Vader: "You are unwise to lower your defenses!"
Originally posted by Darth Luminous
What is the basis for that assumption?That's generally understood to be a lie.
How is it a lie? It said anywhere to be a lie? Plus it's clear throughout the fight, that Vader was more than happy to kill Luke with the saber throw or striking at him while his defenses were down or try to turn him to the darkside.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
[B]Hey?He fights off Yoda, and completely tools ROTS Kenobi.
Going by the films alone Dooku's definitely the most impressive of Sidious's apprentices in combat.
How is it a lie?
Are we supposed to think Luke is imagining things when he says he feels it? We know there was still some good in Vader, hence the conflict. Subsequently in the film Vader's conflict is front and center when Luke is being electrocuted. And Vader confirms that Luke was right about him before he dies. How does one miss all that?
Vader was more than happy to kill Luke
As we saw in TESB, Vader has a reason to avoid killing Luke - unless Luke proves unsuitable for Vader's designs.
Vader was impressed with Luke's speed. Pleased, even. It was a pity, almost, he couldn't let the boy kill the Emperor yet. Luke wasn't ready for that, emotionally. There was still a chance Luke would return to his friends if he destroyed the Emperor now. He needed more extensive tutelage, first — training by both Vader and Palpatine— before he'd be ready to assume his place at Vader's right hand, ruling the galaxy. So Vader had to shepherd the boy through periods like this, stop him from doing damage in the wrong places — or in the right places prematurely.
- from the ROTJ novelization
Vader felt his intentions increasingly ambiguous in this conflict; the purity of his evil was being compromised. - from the ROTJ novelization
Originally posted by Darth Luminous
Are we supposed to think Luke is imagining things when he says he feels it? We know there was still some good in Vader, hence the conflict. Subsequently in the film Vader's conflict is front and center when Luke is being electrocuted. And Vader confirms that Luke was right about him before he dies. How does one miss all that?
That doesn't mean before the electrocution that Vader was having conflict, it was just at that moment. Who knows, Vader also clearly throughout the fight didn't have any trouble with wanting to either kill or turn Luke to the darkside, which is shown in the movie and also noted in the novelization.
But I guess we shall see when this all comes back in the new canon with what was what.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Because the movies say Force Lightning matters, and that Dooku fought on par with Yoda.
Considering it killed Vader after a very short burst, and Maul was unable to use it. Yes it is. Also ROTS Kenobi beat Vader, and yet got butt ****ed by Dooku. Also if we use ONLY movies. Vader sucks, his dueling feats amount to failing to kill an old man past his prime and struggling to subdue a Jedi with little training. How does that at all compare to Maul who defeated a fully trained Jedi Master and his Knight-level Padawan and Dooku who owned a Jedi Master and fought on par with the strongest Jedi.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Considering it killed Vader after a very short burst, and Maul was unable to use it. Yes it is. Also ROTS Kenobi beat Vader, and yet got butt ****ed by Dooku. Also if we use ONLY movies. Vader sucks, his dueling feats amount to failing to kill an old man past his prime and struggling to subdue a Jedi with little training. How does that at all compare to Maul who defeated a fully trained Jedi Master and his Knight-level Padawan and Dooku who owned a Jedi Master and fought on par with the strongest Jedi.
Because said Jedi with little training was said to be ready to challenge Vader and his Emperor. Plus it was repeatedly mentioned how powerful he was throughout the films.
Also RotS Anakin beat Dooku. Anakin > Dooku.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Considering it killed Vader after a very short burst,
and Maul was unable to use it.
Yes it is.
Also ROTS Kenobi beat Vader, and yet got butt ****ed by Dooku.
Also if we use ONLY movies. Vader sucks, his dueling feats amount to failing to kill an old man past his prime
and struggling to subdue a Jedi with little training. How does that at all compare to Maul who defeated a fully trained Jedi Master
and his Knight-level Padawan
and Dooku who owned a Jedi Master and fought on par with the strongest Jedi.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
He didn't fight off Yoda, he ran away. Doesn't matter if it's "Friggin Yoda," him running away isn't impressive.
Clearly you missed the part where frigging Yoda fought on par with the guy who Blitzed Council members.
And what do you mean he didn't fight off Yoda?
Ooohh he ran away. Oh so that completely negates the fight then. I guess Yoda didn't fight off Sidious either then since he ran away 👆
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And what about the movies makes Kenobi impressive exactly?
Kicked Grievous's butt. Defeated Maul. Defeated ROTS Vader. Stalemated OT Vader.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Not really.
So let me get this straight.. The guy who completely stomped AOTC Kenobi and ROTS Kenobi, is not more impressive (from Movie evidence) as the guy who couldn't defeat Old Kenobi, and the guy who was defeated by Padawan Kenobi?
Hmm... Yeah that makes total sense.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Clearly you missed the part where frigging Yoda fought on par with the guy who Blitzed Council members.And what do you mean he didn't fight off Yoda?
Ooohh he ran away. Oh so that completely negates the fight then. I guess Yoda didn't fight off Sidious either then since he ran away 👆
Kicked Grievous's butt. Defeated Maul. Defeated ROTS Vader. Stalemated OT Vader.
So let me get this straight.. The guy who completely stomped AOTC Kenobi and ROTS Kenobi, is not more impressive (from Movie evidence) as the guy who couldn't defeat Old Kenobi, and the guy who was defeated by Padawan Kenobi?
Hmm... Yeah that makes total sense.
I was gonna rebutt but seems like Power's got this 👆