Originally posted by Lord Stark
ANH Kenobi would have to be at least Dooku level to compete with Sidious level speed. The idea of Luke being God tier when Lucas' successor denounced him as below the Jedi Council is...ridiculous. Although...the ROTJ novel did muse that Luke was the most powerful Jedi he's ever faced. Hmmmmm.
Kathleen Kennedy said what? 😛
Now, I know what Filoni said but I'd say he is downright wrong. I'd posit that the only way the OT makes any sense is if Luke is "God tier".
Originally posted by ares834
Kathleen Kennedy said what? 😛Now, I know what Filoni said but I'd say he is downright wrong. I'd posit that the only way the OT makes any sense is if Luke is "God tier".
Not really. Even ANH Luke was a massive threat in that he destroyed the frigging Death Star.
Not everything has to come down to a sword fight. In fact in the galactic scheme of things sword fights are pretty much a secondary concern at best. Whilst a rebel pilot who can destroy Death Stars is much more of a concern.
In any case the Lucasfilm Story Group apparently refer to Filoni's expertise when it comes to usage and portrayal of The Force- That likely includes Force powers. The guy was directly mentored and taught by Lucas on these aspects after all.
Still I think saying any Council Member can take Luke had to be a huge exaggeration. But I wouldn't completely ignore his point either and put ROTJ Luke legitimately at Vader level in close combat.
Also was Lucas "downright wrong" as well? Calling ROTJ a half trained Jedi ill equipped to handle Vader?
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Not really. Even ANH Luke was a massive threat in that he destroyed the frigging Death Star.Not everything has to come down to a sword fight. In fact in the galactic scheme of things sword fights are pretty much a secondary concern at best. Whilst a rebel pilot who can destroy Death Stars is much more of a concern.
In any case the Lucasfilm Story Group apparently refer to Filoni's expertise when it comes to usage and portrayal of The Force- That likely includes Force powers. The guy was directly mentored and taught by Lucas on these aspects after all.
Still I think saying any Council Member can take Luke had to be a huge exaggeration. But I wouldn't completely ignore his point either and put ROTJ Luke legitimately at Vader level in close combat.
Also was Lucas "downright wrong" as well? Calling ROTJ a half trained Jedi ill equipped to handle Vader?
^So much this. I think what Filoni really meant was that Luke would be hard pressed to defeat the higher tier Council members. Which is firmly below the likes of ROTS Kenobi and Plo Koon. Not really sure about how Luke would fare against Kit Fisto though.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Not really. Even ANH Luke was a massive threat in that he destroyed the frigging Death Star.Not everything has to come down to a sword fight. In fact in the galactic scheme of things sword fights are pretty much a secondary concern at best. Whilst a rebel pilot who can destroy Death Stars is much more of a concern.
In any case the Lucasfilm Story Group apparently refer to Filoni's expertise when it comes to usage and portrayal of The Force- That likely includes Force powers. The guy was directly mentored and taught by Lucas on these aspects after all.
Still I think saying any Council Member can take Luke had to be a huge exaggeration. But I wouldn't completely ignore his point either and put ROTJ Luke legitimately at Vader level in close combat.
Also was Lucas "downright wrong" as well? Calling ROTJ a half trained Jedi ill equipped to handle Vader?
You’re right, Yoda and Kenobi could have a different victory in mind rather than a sword fight. But considering how the mention “face” and “confront” I doubt it.
As far as I’m concerned, Luke defeating Vader only because the later was holding back diminishes not only Luke’s victory but the OT as a whole. So yeah, I’d think Luke is legitimately Vader level or, more accurately, that he should be Vader level.
As for Lucas calling Luke “half-trained”, it’s shit like that that makes me glad that the Star Wars franchise is out of his hands. Not only does it make little sense but it contradicts what several characters say in the film (“only a fully trained Jedi knight” “skills are complete” etc).
Originally posted by ILS
I'm just curious; going by the films alone, would you guys still maintain that Luke isn't a council-level warrior, or a match for Vader with a lightsaber, prior to Filoni's commentary?
Well considering that it's said Luke required no more training from Yoda by Yoda, was noted multiple times by both Vader and Palpatine as being immensely powerful, having grown stronger, a threat to them, having Vader say
I see you've constructed a new lightsaber. Your skills are complete."
"Indeed you are powerful as the Emperor as forseen."
Among other quotes
"No more training do you require, already know you, that which you need."
"He has grown strong, only together can we turn him to the dark side of the force."
"He could destroy us."
"The Force is strong with him. The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi."
I'd say just by movies alone, Luke is powerful and a match for Vader. I have a feeling this new EU will show this, despite Filoni's commentary.
Originally posted by ILS
I'm just curious; going by the films alone, would you guys still maintain that Luke isn't a council-level warrior, or a match for Vader with a lightsaber, prior to Filoni's commentary?
It was Lucas's comments that changed my mind about Luke's prowess as of ROTJ. Not Filoni's. Filoni's just made me think I'm definitely Not mis-interpreting Lucas's comments.
But yeah just going by the movies, I'd say Luke was =/> Vader in Sabers at least. But I'll be honest, I did find it very confusing how Luke could be that good after 4 years of pretty much self-training. Considering he has less force potential than his Father.
FYI I think itwould be well cool if Luke was legitimately Vader's equal as of ROTJ. But what can I do about what George Lucas himself says?
Originally posted by ares834
As for Lucas calling Luke “half-trainedâ€, it’s shit like that that makes me glad that the Star Wars franchise is out of his hands.
Yeah but Filoni is still there. The Story Group consults with him on these Force Powers related stuff.
Originally posted by ILS
I'm just curious; going by the films alone, would you guys still maintain that Luke isn't a council-level warrior, or a match for Vader with a lightsaber, prior to Filoni's commentary?
Nah, but then again, going by films alone I'd also hesitate to put Vader above the likes of Dooku.
As far as I’m concerned, Luke defeating Vader only because the later was holding back diminishes not only Luke’s victory but the OT as a whole.
It only makes sense that Vader would be holding back given his motivations and his inner conflict. ( This had been canon in Legends EU due to COPL. )
I think what Filoni really meant was that Luke would be hard pressed to defeat the higher tier Council members.
Maybe it's the difference between Jedi Knight status and "Jedi Master" status? Though Luke became a Jedi Knight in the OT, he wasn't referred to as a Jedi Master until Dark Empire.
Originally posted by WildBantha88
1 he ran away from Yoda like a pussy2 he only beat Kenobi via the Force
1 It was frigging Yoda, and he fought him off first. And Need I remind you Sidious also attempted to run away from Yoda like a proper pussy (given the fight just began).
2 So what? We're talking about who is more impressive in combat, not just in Sabers. In any case he was fighting off ROTS Anakin and Kenobi together in Sabers. And already proved his Saber Prowess against Yoda.