Legends of Tomorrow

You guys talk about writers "hating" the characters (I'm quite sure they do no such thing, it's a job to them, not an opportunity to play fanboy), but interpersonal struggles are what breeds character development. That, and tragic characters are often the most interesting. Ray's continued unrequited love - or lost love - has a ton of potential imo. But they're probably headed toward Kendra picking Ray anyway - the whole choice v. destiny thing has been one of the more heavyhanded themes of the season.

And about 90% of the complaints here could be countered with needing to have a healthy suspension of disbelief, considering they have a full season to fill. This is a popcorn show, not high art, but several recurring complaints here have caused me to raise an eyebrow.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Oi... That's painful to think about for him.

I know right? Poor dude.

Then again, one of those girls he fell in love with was S3 Felicity. So maybe he is getting his just desserts for that mistake. 😛

Originally posted by Digi
You guys talk about writers "hating" the characters (I'm quite sure they do no such thing, it's a job to them, not an opportunity to play fanboy), but interpersonal struggles are what breeds character development. That, and tragic characters are often the most interesting. Ray's continued unrequited love - or lost love - has a ton of potential imo. But they're probably headed toward Kendra picking Ray anyway - the whole choice v. destiny thing has been one of the more heavyhanded themes of the season.

And about 90% of the complaints here could be countered with needing to have a healthy suspension of disbelief, considering they have a full season to fill. This is a popcorn show, not high art, but several recurring complaints here have caused me to raise an eyebrow.

a) I was joking about the writers hating Ray.

b) Pretty sure some writers (not necessarily the ones for this show) genuinely hate certain characters in their media.

c) Yeah, you have a point about suspension of disbelief. In any case, not everyone can be pleased.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
Kendra should have killed Savage but I guess they have to do that in the series season finale

Kendra refusing to kill him was pretty dumb. I'm sure Savage can't be the "only" one who knows what happened to Carter. And even if he was, he'll never talk.. All she did was doom future reincarnations, along with Rip's family, and everybody else in the future..

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
b) Pretty sure some writers (not necessarily the ones for this show) genuinely hate certain characters in their media.

I think it's exceedingly rare. They get paid as long as the show stays on the air, so for the most part their only motivation is pleasing fans, retaining existing viewers, and acquiring new ones. There's almost no reason for them to do anything but try to make the show excellent, within budget. Even the most invested showrunners tend to be able to divorce that reality from their personal biases. Someone's character may go downhill, but it's a calculated decision that maybe didn't pay off in execution, instead of a personal grudge.

This happens in comics where writers get fan crushes and give them a great storyline or power boost. But the industry is set up to allow for it. Especially when any TV show has a team of writers working on it, and for these not all will even be knowledgeable comic fans, the same cannot be said.

Originally posted by cdtm
Kendra refusing to kill him was pretty dumb. I'm sure Savage can't be the "only" one who knows what happened to Carter. And even if he was, he'll never talk.. All she did was doom future reincarnations, along with Rip's family, and everybody else in the future..

I agree

Hawkgirl is kind of a b*tch though. Why accept Ray's proposal and then a few minutes later be whining about how you're engaged? Why play games?

It does seem like Ray gets shit on more then anyone else. He also seems to have terrible taste in women. First Felicity, now Kendra.

Originally posted by Surtur
Hawkgirl is kind of a b*tch though. Why accept Ray's proposal and then a few minutes later be whining about how you're engaged? Why play games?

It does seem like Ray gets shit on more then anyone else. He also seems to have terrible taste in women. First Felicity, now Kendra.

Because this show is on the CW Channel? All of their shows are pretty much Soaked in Emo Tween Driven Stories.

How did you not notice this?

And tbh, Ray's kind of a schmuck. And I like him, but.. well, he is.

Originally posted by cdtm
And tbh, Ray's kind of a schmuck. And I like him, but.. well, he is.

If he is such a schmuck maybe she shouldn't be banging him and agreeing to marry him?

Also come on now..most people when they lose a loved one that is it..they will NEVER see them again. Kendra KNOWS she will see Carter again sooner or later and yet she still f*cking whines about it.

Okay I just caught up on the latest episode too. Wow, Kendra is all around just kind of terrible at this point. She's just really unlikable to me.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Well, if Kendra chooses helping Carter unlock his mind (hate that twist, btw) and in turn be with him over Ray, then the show still hates Ray... But we'll see.

And good point about Snart's gun. Kinda forgot about that.

It pretty much seems like she was about to dump him at the end of the latest episode. She looked way too guilty/sad for it to merely just be her telling him they found Carter and she didn't kill Savage when she had the chance. So yep Ray will most likely get shit on by this person again..and I'm sure they'll *still* have him trying to get her back.

Also I really don't see the big deal of locking away Carter's mind. Eventually he'll die and reincarnate, so since Rip's family doesn't have the ability to reincarnate then Kendra should of killed Savage. Plus let us be honest: Carter has gotten to live out MANY lifetimes, way more then any normal person gets. Even if this somehow locked away his mind forever even after his next reincarnation I would think saving the people who haven't lived for thousands of years would take priority.

Also if Rip has no problem with Jackson altering history to save his father then I'm not sure why he didn't tell Ray he could try to alter history to prevent his fiance from being murdered. This decision just puzzled me because with his father not dying I would think that would cause Jackson's life to be drastically different.

Originally posted by Surtur
If he is such a schmuck maybe she shouldn't be banging him and agreeing to marry him?

Also come on now..most people when they lose a loved one that is it..they will NEVER see them again. Kendra KNOWS she will see Carter again sooner or later and yet she still f*cking whines about it.

No, Kendra's definately in the wrong here.

He's a shmuck for just rolling with it, even knowing how wishy washy she's acting. But in general, Ray make's pretty foolish decisions (The textbook definition of schmuck)

Well the only real blunder that I can think of Ray doing, aside from his taste in women, is leaving his atom tech behind in the 70's. The guy actively contributed despite being made to appear incompetent by the show and generally seems to want to be on the team.

Oh and I guess Kendra just completely forgot Cisco's existence at this point.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Well the only real blunder that I can think of Ray doing, aside from his taste in women, is leaving his atom tech behind in the 70's. The guy actively contributed despite being made to appear incompetent by the show and generally seems to want to be on the team.

Oh and I guess Kendra just completely forgot Cisco's existence at this point.

Cisco's too good for her.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Well the only real blunder that I can think of Ray doing, aside from his taste in women, is leaving his atom tech behind in the 70's. The guy actively contributed despite being made to appear incompetent by the show and generally seems to want to be on the team.

Oh and I guess Kendra just completely forgot Cisco's existence at this point.

Exactly, when Cisco was around it was "boo hoo this is too complicated!" but it sure as shit didn't take her long once Carter was dead to hop onto some other dudes johnson.

She even said she feels like she is cheating on Carter with Ray. Which she wouldn't feel those emotions if she was truly in love with Ray, since you can't actually be in love with two people at once. So it's pretty obvious she wasn't over Carter and yet she *still* got involved. Why? Because she is just selfish. Also apparently she is one of those chicks who just can't stand being single. They always need a man in their life. I'm thinking her past self from the wild west had the right idea.

She does men the world over a favor by staying away from them. Also maybe I'm missing something but how come in the past she didn't just kill herself whenever Carter died? Why go on living alone..wouldn't you just want to reincarnate? Why live in a shithole like the wild west alone?

Her and Carter should basically carry around those poison capsules that spies sometimes keep in their mouth so they can use it if they get caught. Whenever they are in a situation where Savage will likely kill them they should just pop the capsules and die. You're going to die anyways so you might as well do so in a way that doesn't make an immortal mad man even stronger.

I love how this thread is 90% "Here's how they should do it." While I normally invoke suspension of disbelief, I agree that this show stretches those bounds more than usual. It's a unique premise that should demand new approaches to these problems.

^ This show relies heavily on the team no coming up with competent plans. Speaking of which man did this show double down on Ray sandbagging which makes me think it's compensating for the last episode. While some of this is actually Ray's fault I'm now thoroughly convinced a writer has it out for him.

Ray's always been this way, since Arrow.

Like I said, he's a schmuck. Heart in the right place, but doesn't think things through.

Making him sort of the anti-Snart.

He let me down. I vouched for him(fictional character right?!) and he let me down.

So wonder how long Stein's going to last while Snart/Canary are eluding the time cops.

Yeah, how long will Stein last?

I don't even remember this coming up before. How do they know Stein will die?

Didn't mind the twist. It wasn't immediately apparent, and does hint at some cool long-term machinations.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
While some of this is actually Ray's fault I'm now thoroughly convinced a writer has it out for him.

Well...

Originally posted by Digi
I think it's exceedingly rare. They get paid as long as the show stays on the air, so for the most part their only motivation is pleasing fans, retaining existing viewers, and acquiring new ones. There's almost no reason for them to do anything but try to make the show excellent, within budget. Even the most invested showrunners tend to be able to divorce that reality from their personal biases. Someone's character may go downhill, but it's a calculated decision that maybe didn't pay off in execution, instead of a personal grudge.

This happens in comics where writers get fan crushes and give them a great storyline or power boost. But the industry is set up to allow for it. Especially when any TV show has a team of writers working on it, and for these not all will even be knowledgeable comic fans, the same cannot be said.

...I'm actually much more inclined to believe writers to be derivative and campy. I think it's a much more elegant explanation for, well, much of TV, and certainly more plausible than a writer with a grudge and - by proxy - a personal hope that his own career tanks.