Originally posted by shadowknight
My take is Steve might have a very slight edge in pure technique but Bruce is better at the more advanced MA skills like Atemi and Chi manipulation.
What's that based on?
Originally posted by Juntai
Yep, and Batman's aura is so huge that a team composed of the greatest fighters and minds on the planet would fight and act like complete ****ing idiots when he's around.
I guess that's supposed to prove something. Yea I get your point but it is BS right?
Originally posted by carver9Lets take guesswork out of the situation and look at facts. During the 90's MM had his own series he had to amp and grow to lift a skyscraper, SM even under John Byrne who wrote arguably the weakest SM in the modern era could lift island the size of Manhattan. Before Zero hour Superman was moving continental plates and the Moon. I won't even go into N52 SM since he can lift the planet Earth with ease. So tell me which of them you think is clearly stronger than the other. That been said like the Hulk vs Thing lifting feats don't correlate pound for pound in punching feats. Nevertheless MM has never even come close to beating SM.
Do you really think MM strength is that far off from Superman in comparison to Thing and Hulk?
I can easily give you other examples that demonstrate SM clear superiority over MM Strength wise if you want.
Of course Superman's stats are superior to MM but it's MM's other abilities (mainy intangibility) combined with his top-tier stats that should give him the edge over Clark. I remember the issue where Superman one-shotted J'onn with heat vision while J'onn was intangible. LOL. How does that make any sense? It's one of the biggest instances of PIS I've ever seen and you know I like Superman a Hell of a lot more than I do J'onn. MM is an extremely boring character to me but based on the powersets of the two characters MM should win more often than not, imo. He's one of the few characters who SHOULD be able to win a majority against Big Blue but of course DC will never let that happen. They will continue to make J'onn job to him.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He's called that on other sites, too...
Originally posted by iceman24567
Oh you used jobber aura in the wrong context. Those with jobber auras make the opponents they fight job..
Originally posted by Juntai
Yep, and Batman's aura is so huge that a team composed of the greatest fighters and minds on the planet would fight and act like complete ****ing idiots when he's around.
Originally posted by DeadlineNo, it isn't.. but that wasn't to make any sort of real point other than helping distinguish the difference between someone who jobs and someone with a jobber aura [who makes others job] based on another post.
I guess that's supposed to prove something. Yea I get your point but it is BS right?
Originally posted by Juntai
No, it isn't.. but that wasn't to make any sort of real point other than helping distinguish the difference between someone who jobs and someone with a jobber aura [who makes others job] based on another post.
Maybe I didn't really got your point but the bottom line is Cap is better at Batman at everything except building gadgets.
Originally posted by shadowknight
No, if they fought the issue would be in doubt for a long, long time, even if there's a winner it would be a very close majority like 5.5/10 or at worst 6/10 htye are that close in skill. To tell the truth I don't necessarily see Steve as the winner in such a contest either. My take is Steve might have a very slight edge in pure technique but Bruce is better at the more advanced MA skills like Atemi and Chi manipulation.
i really couldn't disagree more. they ARE that close in skill--close enough skill wouldn't be the deciding factor in any of the fights. in fact, i don't really think ANY indiviual stat would be the deciding factor. however, steve's small advantages in speed, strength and durability would add up. bruce has no advantage over cap in a no equipment, h2h fight except MAYBE skill, and that would be extremely small. even things like will power and tactical knowledge would be essentially equal, advantages bats usually has one almost anyone. each would be a very long, brutal fight, but cap would take the good majority imo. not too sure how anyone could see it very differently, but....that's what makes the forum go round i guess.
Originally posted by leonidas
i really couldn't disagree more. they ARE that close in skill--close enough skill wouldn't be the deciding factor in any of the fights. in fact, i don't really think ANY indiviual stat would be the deciding factor. however, steve's small advantages in speed, strength and durability would add up. bruce has no advantage over cap in a no equipment, h2h fight except MAYBE skill, and that would be extremely small. even things like will power and tactical knowledge would be essentially equal, advantages bats usually has one almost anyone. each would be a very long, brutal fight, but cap would take the good majority imo. not too sure how anyone could see it very differently, but....that's what makes the forum go round i guess.
No way is Bruce superior to Cap in skill if anything it's the other way around. I could even argue that Cap is better without the SSS, to be fair it should be equal.
The problem is Cap has impressive feats way before Batman even started getting a push. I would really like to know what it is that ppl think that makes Batman more skilled.
Originally posted by Deadline
No way is Bruce superior to Cap in skill if anything it's the other way around. I could even argue that Cap is better without the SSS, to be fair it should be equal.The problem is Cap has impressive feats way before Batman even started getting a push. I would really like to know what it is that ppl think that makes Batman more skilled.
For what its worth, this is how i've always seen Cap's skill level (IFs thoughts, last panel).
Nothing wrong with Batman being more skilled. Cap's no nonsense style, coupled with his physical stats, put him on an even playing field.
Those stats, Batman more or less matches, but he has the skill to not rely on the stats the way Cap does.
Originally posted by riv6672
For what its worth, this is how i've always seen Cap's skill level (IFs thoughts, last panel).Nothing wrong with Batman being more skilled. Cap's no nonsense style, coupled with his physical stats, put him on an even playing field.
Those stats, Batman more or less matches, but he has the skill to not rely on the stats the way Cap does.
You're basing that on one 1000 year old quote? Well to be quite honest with you you may not have read a lot of Cap comics. I've read a lot of Batman and Cap, the only reason why you may consider Batman to be more skilled is because he tends to mention the technique hes using more often. Cap doesn't need to, you don't hold your own against Korvac because you're peak human.
Originally posted by Deadline
You're basing that on one 1000 year old quote? Well to be quite honest with you you may not have read a lot of Cap comics. I've read a lot of Batman and Cap, the only reason why you may consider Batman to be more skilled is because he tends to mention the technique hes using more often. Cap doesn't need to, you don't hold your own against Korvac because you're peak human.
Not interested in a comic book dick measuring contest over who's read the most comics either, though i'd wager i was reading comics while you were in knickers.
Learn to debate, not dismiss facts you dont like because they're "1000 years old", then talk to me.
I'll make another wager and say i'm still going to get a good laugh out of you.
you don't hold your own against korvac on skill either.....a shield, will power and a little pis are all needed.
as for skill--i'd say bats was slightly more skilled, but the difference is negligible. more mention is made of batman's skills, of all the ma he is trained in, how many weapons he is proficient with. there are 2 many examples of him fighting skilled opponents and dealing with them. cap has been shown to be below people like mantis and moondragon, while bruce contends well with guys like val. even logan has appeared to be more skilled than him in one scenario. all that said, i STILL think the skill levels are very close, but it think it is easier to support the stance that bat's is the more skilled, than the other way around.
regardless, this isn't the thread for this discussion--there is already a 200+ page thread that deals with bats vs cap no equipment.
on topic, their peak strength levels are nearly identical based on feats, with an edge to cap in a general sense.
Originally posted by riv6672
Your condescending attitude doesnt make your point mean squat to me. Less actually.Not interested in a comic book dick measuring contest over who's read the most comics either, though i'd wager i was reading comics while you were in knickers.
Learn to debate, not dismiss facts you dont like because they're "1000 years old", then talk to me.
I'll make another wager and say i'm still going to get a good laugh out of you.
You're overeacting. The point is it's one fairly old quote, it doesn't prove anything. There are lots of examples that contradict that like the example I mentioned there are lots more.