Originally posted by leonidas
you don't hold your own against korvac on skill either.....a shield, will power and a little pis are all needed.as for skill--i'd say bats was slightly more skilled, but the difference is negligible. more mention is made of batman's skills, of all the ma he is trained in, how many weapons he is proficient with. there are 2 many examples of him fighting skilled opponents and dealing with them. cap has been shown to be below people like mantis and moondragon, while bruce contends well with guys like val. even logan has appeared to be more skilled than him in one scenario. all that said, i STILL think the skill levels are very close, but it think it is easier to support the stance that bat's is the more skilled, than the other way around.
regardless, this isn't the thread for this discussion--there is already a 200+ page thread that deals with bats vs cap no equipment.
on topic, their peak strength levels are nearly identical based on feats, with an edge to cap in a general sense.
If you want to open up that thread thats up to you. Just a question you did actually read the Korvac fight and see Cap was using his fists in that fight? In fact I think he used it more than his shield. Not even sure what to make of that statement.
Originally posted by Star428It was Carver acting surprised when I said SM is considerably above MM in STR lvl. As for SM 1 shotting MM while J'onn is intangible that's power for the course. Depending on how you see SM HV working. John Byrne explained it as Telekinetically moving molecules, IIRC MM Intangibility works by spreading his molecules apart, so based on that SM should be able to affect him. Lets not forget other Kryptonians have also easily defeated MM while phased, and even in his own series a villain affected him with a telekinetic heat based attack while intangible. So it's hardly this automatic win, that J'onn has vs SM.
Of course Superman's stats are superior to MM but it's MM's other abilities (mainy intangibility) combined with his top-tier stats that should give him the edge over Clark. I remember the issue where Superman one-shotted J'onn with heat vision while J'onn was intangible. LOL. How does that make any sense? It's one of the biggest instances of PIS I've ever seen and you know I like Superman a Hell of a lot more than I do J'onn. MM is an extremely boring character to me but based on the powersets of the two characters MM should win more often than not, imo. He's one of the few characters who SHOULD be able to win a majority against Big Blue but of course DC will never let that happen. They will continue to make J'onn job to him.
Originally posted by shadowknight
It was Carver acting surprised when I said SM is considerably above MM in STR lvl. As for SM 1 shotting MM while J'onn is intangible that's power for the course. Depending on how you see SM HV working. John Byrne explained it as Telekinetically moving molecules, IIRC MM Intangibility works by spreading his molecules apart, so based on that SM should be able to affect him. Lets not forget other Kryptonians have also easily defeated MM while phased, and even in his own series a villain affected him with a telekinetic heat based attack while intangible. So it's hardly this automatic win, that J'onn has vs SM.
MM phased right through Superbitch Prime's hv, though.
John Ostrander, who wrote the definitive mini of the pre nu52 era, had MM hurt only by a new god sword that was in phase with hyperspace, or something. The implication, was Martian phasing was based on some sort of dimensional shifting.
Originally posted by cdtmIt depends on the writer on how J'onn maintainability works, but IIRC it was during John Ostrander series run where a Telekinetic villainess hurt MM with a Heat based attack while Intangible.
MM phased right through Superbitch Prime's hv, though.John Ostrander, who wrote the definitive mini of the pre nu52 era, had MM hurt only by a new god sword that was in phase with hyperspace, or something. The implication, was Martian phasing was based on some sort of dimensional shifting.
Originally posted by Deadline
If you want to open up that thread thats up to you. Just a question you did actually read the Korvac fight and see Cap was using his fists in that fight? In fact I think he used it more than his shield. Not even sure what to make of that statement.
i debated for several pages in that thread already as a challenge with rage going feat-for-feat with scans. i certainly have nothing more to add to that thread.
as for the korvac fight--are you referencing the classic "time ends for you now!" battle against the avengers? in that fight he did nothing more than throw his shield at korvac who was in human form and had his back turned to him. he stunned him briefly with the shield then punched korvac twice then.....got annihilated.
if you're talking about another meeting, then i don't think i've seen it. and what you can make of the statement is simple--cap threw his shield from behind and punched a stunned mike twice. not exactly a great skill display, as cool as the scene was.
Originally posted by Deadlinelol no, Batman is more skilled than Cap, does Cap know every pressure point on the body? Is Cap a master of every fighting style? Can Captain America reverse pressure points? Hell Batman has used pressure points on freaking Solomon Grundy who's made out of plant matter. Bats skill is like a 10, Cap is like 7
No way is Bruce superior to Cap in skill if anything it's the other way around. I could even argue that Cap is better without the SSS, to be fair it should be equal.The problem is Cap has impressive feats way before Batman even started getting a push. I would really like to know what it is that ppl think that makes Batman more skilled.
Originally posted by Rezacticlol
lol no, Batman is more skilled than Cap, does Cap know every pressure point on the body? Is Cap a master of every fighting style? Can Captain America reverse pressure points? Hell Batman has used pressure points on freaking Solomon Grundy who's made out of plant matter. Bats skill is like a 10, Cap is like 7
Cap is stronger, Batman hits harder, unless Cap can melee one shot giant robots
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3755549-batman+%2323+-+batman+vs+robot+4.jpg
Originally posted by Rezactic
Cap is stronger, Batman hits harder, unless Cap can melee one shot giant robotshttp://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105634/3755549-batman+%2323+-+batman+vs+robot+4.jpg
Nice feat for sure, esp. the art is cool...
... but how is that beyond what Cap's done? 😕
Originally posted by Deadline
No way is Bruce superior to Cap in skill if anything it's the other way around. I could even argue that Cap is better without the SSS, to be fair it should be equal.The problem is Cap has impressive feats way before Batman even started getting a push. I would really like to know what it is that ppl think that makes Batman more skilled.
are you kidding me? Batman is very much Caps superior in MA ability, even when he wasn't Bat God he was able to give Deathstroke, who was his superior physically at the time a good enough fight that Deathstroke commented on Batmans prowess with utmost respect afterwards. And like I said, thats before years of amping to the character, they are very close in physical stats with Cap edging Bats out but batman is most certainly his superior in skill, which is why this is such a good close fight.
Batmans MA showings:
http://batmanfeats.blogspot.ca/p/martial-arts.html
and, back onto topic, Batmans strength feats:
sure:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/1/15047/421686-ddvsabsorbingman14bt.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/11352/494647-472206_absorb_super.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/1/15047/421688-ddvsabsorbingman34ol.jpg
surprised you never saw it before. it's one of dd's best wins imo.
