Black Adam Vs Wonder Woman

Originally posted by Stoic
Hold on a second. Superman wasn't holding back in that fight because he thought that he was fighting someone else. This means that he still retained all of his fighting experience and was using it to defeat what he thought was an enemy. Wonder Woman took a hit from Superman when he wasn't holding back. Can the same be said of Black Adam? Combat skill is the only thing that matters here, because in real life if you take two people that are roughly the same strength level and gave one the skills of a seasoned MA while giving the other mediocre brawling skills, the elite MA would come out on top nearly every single time.

Superman was still being controlled, though. And wasn't fighting to the best of his ability due to said control and the grief he was being put through.

You can't use it as a kind of "Superman at his best" example.

So just to be clear, how fast do you feel one needs to be to react to and block heat vision? What is the minimum amount of speed you'd need?

Bullseye level speed

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Bullseye level speed

I don't understand. Or wait, you mean you need to be as fast as the character Bullseye from Marvel?

Originally posted by riv6672
Every time? No, thats not strictly true.

Being more skilled with greater reflex speed ensures that the hit ratio will not be one to one, but more like 4 to 1. So even if he's stronger (I'm not sure since she is stronger than DC Hercules) then this ratio will offset the slight strength advantage.

Where does this 4 to 1 ratio keep coming from?

If you don't think he's stronger, i'd take another look at his fights, tbh.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman was still being controlled, though. And wasn't fighting to the best of his ability due to said control and the grief he was being put through.

You can't use it as a kind of "Superman at his best" example.

I can't fully agree with you. he wasn't at his best in terms of mental faculties, but he was hitting as hard as someone of his level of strength would hit if he were supremely pissed, and in that book he was pissed. He would have done the same thing to Black Adam in that state of mind that he did to Diana, which was my main point. Diana is roughly as powerful as Teth IMO, but she can fight better. What this tells me is that she would eventually defeat him due to superior combat ability. At leas t that is what my mind is telling me.

Originally posted by Stoic
I can't fully agree with you. he wasn't at his best in terms of mental faculties, but he was hitting as hard as someone of his level of strength would hit if he were supremely pissed, and in that book he was pissed. He would have done the same thing to Black Adam in that state of mind that he did to Diana, which was my main point. Diana is roughly as powerful as Teth IMO, but she can fight better. What this tells me is that she would eventually defeat him due to superior combat ability. At leas t that is what my mind is telling me.

I don't honestly agree that he was hitting as hard as he was capable of. Stronger than his average? Sure, but throwing a punch is about more than strength, and with his mind as messed up as it was, while he was still fighting the effects, I wouldn't put too much weight in that showing, personally.

Let's not forget either that the only reason (besides her tiara) that WW survived against an enraged (albeit handicapped) Superman was because Clark decided he wanted to make DD suffer so he changed his mind about knocking him (WW) into the sun and instead knocked him/her back to Earth. Superman explained that with his internal dialogue in a later comic.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't honestly agree that he was hitting as hard as he was capable of. Stronger than his average? Sure, but throwing a punch is about more than strength, and with his mind as messed up as it was, while he was still fighting the effects, I wouldn't put too much weight in that showing, personally.

Well he really didn't know who he was fighting, just that he was out to win. I believe that if he went after Black Adam with the same amount of ferocity that he went at Diana with, that he would have similar effects on BA. If BA is stronger than Diana it's not by a vast amount, or to the point that he doubles her in strength. All out with her weaponry, skill, and speed, I can't see him pulling a majority. He's just a very powerful brawler.

Originally posted by Stoic
I can't fully agree with you. he wasn't at his best in terms of mental faculties, but he was hitting as hard as someone of his level of strength would hit if he were supremely pissed, and in that book he was pissed. He would have done the same thing to Black Adam in that state of mind that he did to Diana, which was my main point.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't honestly agree that he was hitting as hard as he was capable of. Stronger than his average? Sure, but throwing a punch is about more than strength, and with his mind as messed up as it was, while he was still fighting the effects, I wouldn't put too much weight in that showing, personally.

DD is far more durable than WW. So Superman definitely not hold back as much when punching him. Now I understand Pr when he says that since Superman mind was messed then his technique of his punches could have been off, which can influence the damage of his punches.

WW wins this fight easily. As she will deliever a 4 to 1 hit ratio or more or simply stun BA with a blow and lasso him immediately afterwards.

LOL. No, she doesn't. Keep kidding yourselves all u like.

Originally posted by Star428
LOL. No, she doesn't. Keep kidding yourselves all u like.

Ok, with everything being equal. If a highly skilled MA person fought a normal brawler with little to no skill then what would the hit ratio be?

Diana has blocking, dodging, and countering skills that gives her extra hits. These extra hit would do more than cancel out the small strength advantage BA may or may not have. If BA is twice as strong as WW then WW wins with a 3 to 1 hit ratio.

Finally, why wouldn't WW simply lasso BA AFTER he stun him momentarily with a hit? This is an automatic win everytime.

Originally posted by Stoic
I can't fully agree with you. he wasn't at his best in terms of mental faculties, but he was hitting as hard as someone of his level of strength would hit if he were supremely pissed, and in that book he was pissed. He would have done the same thing to Black Adam in that state of mind that he did to Diana, which was my main point. Diana is roughly as powerful as Teth IMO, but she can fight better. What this tells me is that she would eventually defeat him due to superior combat ability. At leas t that is what my mind is telling me.

As was said, he wanted DD to suffer.

Also, he easily broke WW's wrist. If the fight went on, she probably would have lost, even with the weakness exploitation (A weakness Adam doesn't have.)

Originally posted by abhilegend
Your turn leo.

all right, i just didn't want anyone thinking i'd forgotten this. just quickly going through your scans--the JSA bout. a pretty good showing, but, really--dr midnight, hourman, terrifc, wildcat, and the hawks? well, if a herald doesn't take them out easily, prolly shouldn't be a herald.....

that leaves the better stuff--slamming PG to the ground though isn't winning the fight, though it's clear he was stronger than she was imo. he slapped jay but again, knocking someone back isn't winning anything. fury basically one-shotted him for a brief time and fate himself was of course powerless. i mean, the scans conveniently left out this:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/111336/3804295-4721338810-alan2.jpg

alan and hawkman handed adam his a$$ and everything could have been done right there had hawkman not been called off of him.

and let's not forget--they were not going for the kill--they were trying to subdue him. something that is ALWAYS called into question in these types of fights....

so, to answer your question--do i think ww could have knocked jay back, tossed PG and beat up the hawks, midnight, hourman, wildcat and a terrific who decided to go h2h before a couple of them got their sh!t together to take her out?? yeah, i'd say she could do that. 👆

his best single showing was against j'onn. adam did FAR better against jonn than cap marvel himself did. that will be hard to match but i'll see what i can find....

your second scan doesn't bear commenting on--a team beat the crap out of him. it's not like luthor assembled that team JUST to take adam out. could that team have done the same to ww? prolly. 👆

the third scan--a nice durability feat where the heat vision is concerned. and i agree his durability>diana's. but...he just thunderclapped. don't see the big deal tbh...

as for the ww scans: lol nice first scan. diana was completely suckered by her in that scan. sub in adam in that scene and the exact same thing would have happened. diana was fine there and you can even see her crawling out of the wreckage in your scan. THIS scan comes right before yours:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/68153/2360431-brave_and_the_bold______minutemen_shazam__7___page_14.jpg

i guess she could have caught diana's fist in the next scan, or she could have grabbed it. regardless, i'm not arguing if diana is stronger than PG. and the comparison is kinda moot anyway--adam and kara have never had a full on, to the death type match that she and ww have, so frankly we really have no idea how kara would do against adam were she going full out. we do know that diana handled very easily after she stopped issuing warnings to her. her skill was the difference. her skill would come heavily into play in THIS fight as well.

and seriously: the first khrana scan all diana wanted to do was TALK and she got back handed in front of a group of people--she didn't fight back because she didn't want her identity blown! that scan is utterly meaningless. as for the second scan--not sure of the context, but given some of what you posted, call me....skeptical.... lol

and then there is the amazo scan. again, seriously? who the hell knows what happened there. we can see clearly that adam was attacking from behind. so many versions of amazo--some are awesome, some less so, but bottom line--we have no idea wth happened in that scene....

and that's it?

k, well, i'll show some feats that i think match what you posted--or at least some close. recall i said i think adam would win a fight--i just think it would be enormously close and she'd take several of them though he'd get a slight majority....

from trinity before the creation engines... their blows rocked the heavens and the earth

https://i.imgur.com/zAXfeYX.jpg

here she flat out beats the fukc out of herc--whose strength marvel is said to possess:

http://i.imgur.com/IoQiTaj.jpg

of course the spectre feat:

http://i.imgur.com/HcbDoJy.jpg

her speed/reactions are flat out greater than his. i challenge you to find anything that can surpass the shattered god feat:

http://imgur.com/a/5dOoi

i'd go so far as to say kara has better displayed speed feats than adam does. if you disagree, show me what you gots! lol

and of course there is the speed force scan:

http://imgur.com/a/jS1uF

that's not the equal of the shattered god feat, but even if the speed of light is defined as the barrier (an inconsistent thing at best) this is something adam has never been able to do.

and here her MOTHER lasso's a PHOTON:

http://i.imgur.com/So8p9me.jpg

diana is FAR faster (and it has been shown) than her mother ever was...

based on displayed feats, i'd say she has a definite speed edge. it wouldn't be much, but an edge just the same. she also has an obvious skill edge as was demonstrated in the earlier scans when kara couldn't even HIT her.... also shown many times when she went through her powerless phase. anyway, the whole PG battle:

http://imgur.com/a/aNXxP

as you can see, once she decided to fight like a warrior, it was over pretty quickly.

and here is the full sacrifice battle: the narration says he isn't holding back--SHE IS. anyone who doesn't think this is a GREAT showing for her (he's close to the sun so his powers are maxed, he hits her from the sun to the friggin earth and she's only momentarily ko'd, etc....) is INSANE. she slices his throat easily as he is coming at superspeed.... yadda-yadda....

http://imgur.com/a/GE0Px

now, i fear to show this because i fear this will become supes vs ww. i will NOT entertain that, nor any allusion to it. i showed this because it showed some GREAT speed feats, some ridiculous durability and the power of her tiara when needed. and just so people don't think the tiara would kill adam--here it kills deimos, the GOD of terror:

http://i.imgur.com/imf5oZh.gif

it could ABSOLUTELY do the same to adam.

as for whether she can beat a lantern:

http://imgur.com/a/KlcY3

she takes him out easily. and even at the end, where she LETS him pound on her, she is standing easily when she could have killed him. lanterns also have a lot of trouble dealing with magic.

as far as a common foe: here is her fight with cap nazi:

http://imgur.com/a/swvBt

here is adam's:

http://i.imgur.com/kdP36Dw.jpg

she clearly did better there as she...wasn't ko'd. 😐

this is a great showing. she loses, but not before she saves superman from amazo and does remarkably well given how powerful this amazo was. even though she loses, this is far more impressive to me than the adam/amazo showing because we HAVE context:

http://imgur.com/a/x2YXs

and certainly one of her better feats was the taking down of genocide. genocide had handled her effectively in their first meeting. here is what genocide also did to the league:

http://imgur.com/a/37Jph

very impressive imo. even with the help of the amped amazons they barely won the day. here is ww vs genocide the second time:

http://imgur.com/a/9rIvc

GREAT speed, durability and weapon feats in there....

i have more but that's enough for the moment. i see no way in the world this fight is anything but close. speed and skill go to diana. durability goes adam. strength to adam, though very slightly. and she has her tiara and lasso to make up the small differences.

very close, though i look forward to seeing more from the adam camp to further make their point in favor of a STOMP by adam.....

Originally posted by ODG

lol

👆

Originally posted by Stoic
Well he really didn't know who he was fighting, just that he was out to win. I believe that if he went after Black Adam with the same amount of ferocity that he went at Diana with, that he would have similar effects on BA. If BA is stronger than Diana it's not by a vast amount, or to the point that he doubles her in strength. All out with her weaponry, skill, and speed, I can't see him pulling a majority. He's just a very powerful brawler.

Hit as hard as he could while angry and grief filled? Sure, I could agree with that.

Originally posted by ODG

We don't use controlled versions, no matter how powerful, as being indicative of a character's best.

Originally posted by Bentley
BA is a weakling that gets pwned by nerds even when amped.

He gets humilliated 👆

Originally posted by Star428
😂

Good one, Bentley.

I seem to be missing a joke. 😮

LOL. Thought it would be pretty obvious what I thought was so funny about Bentley's post. It's the fact that he thinks BA would get "humiliated" by someone who is at least a tier below him in every category except skill.