My biggest gripe with TDK & TDKR was that Nolan went over board with his grand visions. Too many minor characters & their minor stories to tell...taking up screen time & taking the focus away from the main character...Batman/Bruce Wayne.
Nolan focussed on too many victims that essentially made Batman a shallow tie-in to each victim's plight instead of their saving grace.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERAnyone who thinks that the trilogy is perfect and beyond reproach would be filed under the "fanboy" category.
You said the films are nowhere near as good as the fanboys claim. My point was it's not just the hardore fanboys who claim that those films were Epic. It's tons of movie goers. Even the vast majority of movie critics.
I think it's partially Marvel putting out loads of movies that everyone loved that were complete opposites to the tone and world of the Nolan Batman trilogy. People loved the first two movies but by the time of TDKR people had started to aggressively turn against the "realistic" aspects in this movie and others. And Rises being mediocre just helped that along. By the time Man of Steel came out people actively hated the grim, humorless tone, dark colors and more grounded story.
I'm not sure that explains all the negativity though.
I don't think people give a shit about the gritty mcgrit grit atmosphere of the Daredevil/Batman series because that tone actually fits the characters. Batman is a morbid, humorless ****-face, as is all of Gotham. Same with Daredevil and Hell's Kitchen.
By comparison, Superman is not a dark, gritty character outside of a handful of alternate-universe/what-if portrayals. Sure, he's not sunshine and smiles all day everyday, but then neither is Captain America. Ultimately though they're both beacons of hope and goodness that are supposed to inspire those around them with their uplifting personas, and that same sense is supposed to bleed into the audience. Captain America achieves this in his movies, thus far Superman has not, and that's because his world is so ****ing depressing and cold all the time.
It just doesn't fit the character. Winter Soldier is all the proof you need that you don't need grit to showcase mature themes.
****ed up tone isn't the same thing as source material inaccuracies.
You wouldn't need to be intimately familiar with the Star Wars universe to criticize the Force Awakens for being a romantic comedy, nor would you need to read Batman comics to realize that a weed-comedy Batman film along the vein of Cheech and Chong would be retarded.
But there are plenty of depressing Suprman stories. Hell, perhaps the most famous Superman comic (Death of Superman) is depressing. Now I agree, I wish the film was far more optimistic and upbeat and I think accusing it of being too dark and too dreary is a very fair criticism. But simply saying "dat ain't Superman" based solely on preconceived (and often flawed) notions of what the character is is not a valid one.
Originally posted by Tzeentch
I don't think people give a shit about the gritty mcgrit grit atmosphere of the Daredevil/Batman series because that tone actually fits the characters. Batman is a morbid, humorless ****-face, as is all of Gotham.
I didn't just say it was the atmosphere, it's also the whole "realistic" low-powered setting. And you're generalizing, Batman doesn't need to be that way and actually hasn't been for the majority of his media in all likelihood.
Also my experience does suggest its partly the tone that's the problem. I've seen a lot of people criticising the way the Nolan films do things and getting pissed about DC Nolan-ising their movies and shows. A lot of people praising Marvel for being "fun" followed by bitter comments about Nolan and Man of Steel and the Wonder Woman + Batman vs Superman things.
And only 50% of those comments were from Moviebob.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I think it's partially Marvel putting out loads of movies that everyone loved that were complete opposites to the tone and world of the Nolan Batman trilogy. People loved the first two movies but by the time of TDKR people had started to aggressively turn against the "realistic" aspects in this movie and others. And Rises being mediocre just helped that along. By the time Man of Steel came out people actively hated the grim, humorless tone, dark colors and more grounded story.I'm not sure that explains all the negativity though.
Yeah, I'd agree with that.
I don't think Rises is mediocre, though. It's a mess of a movie, but certain scenes are exceptionally well done. It's the Heaven's Gate of Batman movies.
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
And yet you fail to see the humour of 4 guys attacking Batman in hand to hand combat...forgetting they're all holding guns.
Conservation of Ninjutsu. It's pretty common in most superhero and action stories. Plus, I suppose you could argue that seeing Batman pop out of nowhere is freaky and broke their concentration. Otherwise? Yeah, terrible fight choreography.