Most Powerful Era?

Originally posted by Trocity
It does seem to be an era with strong powerhouses and a thinner average cast. I guess that's just what I was getting at, Thon and Nomi have been compared to Yoda ( or vice versa ), and I feel like the strongest Jedi from that era were definitively some of the strongest ever.

Yea, ToTJ-KotoR is solid on those grounds. It's equivalent to, like, the Hundred Year Darkness with the Sith, IMO. The HYD has a small cast of really badass sith, then a falloff.

I do feel that ToTJ era probably put too little emphasis on the martial end. Arca Jeth actively distained the lightsaber at times, and he was one of the big names. Vodo was the only Jedi teacher who really emphasized it. Which probably played a fair role in why Exar and Ulic, sword prodigies both, could dominate so much...

50-year later KotoR, i.e. Revan and Meetra time, was IMO one of the weaker era. You had the powerful sith, and then almost nada. The Sith, which were made up of a full 1/3rd of the Jedi Order and including the biggest two badasses of the time had Revan and Malak... then Bandon, and we don't have anyone else as badass as Bandon save maybe for pre-immortality Sion. Then with the Triumvirate you had Nihilus! Traya!... Sion!... and then everyone else was just fodder, the Jedi and Sith pretty much had a double-KO there.

To mention another era for contrast, Legacy has a short list of powerhouses, but a deep list of reasonably strong masters below them (due in large part to fielding three well-trained orders rather than two). I feel it above the later-KotoR, and has pros and cons when compared to the ToTJ-KotoR era.

Originally posted by Q99
The PT Jedi were more numerous, the top end of their lineup was downright scary- Yoda, Anakin, Windu, Kenobi- plus they had a rather impressive rack of not-quite-that-badass-but-still-pretty-badass-masters, both in and out of the council.

Well according to the KotOR campaign guide, the KotOR Jedi (presumably prior to the Great Sith Wars) was the prime of the Jedi surpassing even the PT. So yeah, according to canon the most powerful Order would have to be either the KotOR order or PT order depending on whether you think EU can twist Lucas statements like that.

Originally posted by ares834
Well according to the KotOR campaign guide, the KotOR Jedi (presumably prior to the Great Sith Wars) was the prime of the Jedi surpassing even the PT.

Really? It says they were more powerful than all future generations?

You have the exact quote?

"Even more so than in the Clone Wars, these are the days of the Jedi in their prime."

edit: beaten.

I guess Swtor is just EVEN more the prime than that, lol.

The SWTOR era has to be the most powerful. Constant war, relearning forgotten techniques... Not even close.

Originally posted by Nephthys
edit: beaten.

I guess Swtor is just EVEN more the prime than that, lol.

Only if you think personal opinion supersede canon fact. 👆

Throw in the Sith though and TOR probably does surpass it.

? Wha? Do you have a different Kotor CG? Cause mine says no such thing.

Originally posted by ares834
Only if you think personal opinion supersede canon fact. 👆

Throw in the Sith though and TOR probably does surpass it.

It's not my opinion, multiple things in canon point out that the Sith are better than they've ever been and the Jedi have improved on their old ways and are more militarily adept than ever.

The Swtor period didn't even exist when that quote was made.

But since you seem to agree with me anyway whatevs.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
? Wha? Do you have a different Kotor CG? Cause mine says no such thing.

Page 103, Chapter VII.

Odd that is where it is instead of where the Jedi stuff is.

But anyway, I doubt a sourcebook trumps Lucas' quote as he specifically stated in the Webisode Ep 1 interview that the Prime of the Jedi was the PT era.

Originally posted by ares834
"Even more so than in the Clone Wars, these are the days of the Jedi in their prime."

LOL Well that's written pretty clear cut.

You're right though. It depends how much people think Lucas's statements count with regards to the EU now. Given that the whole levels of Canon are gone, and it's just Canon or Legends, with Lucas not actually having authority over either anymore.

On the other hand both are following/respecting certain rules and guidelines set up by Lucas. Just depends to what extent.

It's why I don't bother too much with cross generational debates. Because it's impossible to properly power scale.

Originally posted by ares834
Well according to the KotOR campaign guide, the KotOR Jedi (presumably prior to the Great Sith Wars) was the prime of the Jedi surpassing even the PT. So yeah, according to canon the most powerful Order would have to be either the KotOR order or PT order depending on whether you think EU can twist Lucas statements like that.

they do battle with the evil Sith, and defend the galaxy against the Mandalorian hordes.

Originally posted by ares834
Well according to the KotOR campaign guide, the KotOR Jedi (presumably prior to the Great Sith Wars) was the prime of the Jedi surpassing even the PT. So yeah, according to canon the most powerful Order would have to be either the KotOR order or PT order depending on whether you think EU can twist Lucas statements like that.

they do battle with the evil Sith, and defend the galaxy against the Mandalorian hordes.

Anyway its pretty ambigious as to who they are referring to here, but considering what the Clone Wars did for Anakin and Kenobi I assume its alluding to any Jedi during war periods, which would have considerably increased their martial ability. But really the answer to the OP depends on your point of view.

And considering we have two conflicting statements about "Jedi in their prime", a conflict this statement acknowledges, its obvious that the term "prime" is not supposed to be taken in an absolute sense. So there is definitely room for new eras like the SWTOR era to be stronger.

Personally I'd vouch for SWTOR, they are in my opinion visibly the strongest, most unified and with the most battle experience. However the PT Order have a lot going for them, including the best of the best among their top ranks.

Originally posted by ares834
Well according to the KotOR campaign guide, the KotOR Jedi (presumably prior to the Great Sith Wars) was the prime of the Jedi surpassing even the PT. So yeah, according to canon the most powerful Order would have to be either the KotOR order or PT order depending on whether you think EU can twist Lucas statements like that.

Really, I find comments like 'prime' and 'golden age' pretty useless.

I mean, a golden age seems to, in practice, tend to mean 'a time when the Jedi are solidly ascendant,' and/or 'defeats great threats.' At the start of KotoR, just before Exar Kun, there'd been a looong time of peace, followed by them winning a big fight. Similarly, CW Jedi is after 1k year of piece, and a big fight.

And Prime, it's really hard to tell what, if anything, that means in practice.

One telling thing is there has never, ever been a side-by-side comparison of most of the era's relative capabilities. Just stuff on one era talking about "oh yea, this era's totally great."

We have enough data to compare strength in several ways, looking at the strongest force users. We don't need to rely on vague props of vagueness that also seem contradicted by people in those same eras talking about how great prior eras were.

There is nothing vague about. It's straight up saying that the era has the strongest Jedi Order.

What does that mean?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Except it also says this😖o the contexts have to be either the Great Sith War or the Mandalorian Wars/Jedi Civil War.

Anyway its pretty ambigious as to who they are referring to here, but considering what the Clone Wars did for Anakin and Kenobi I assume its alluding to any Jedi during war periods, which would have considerably increased their martial ability. But really the answer to the OP depends on your point of view.

And considering we have two conflicting statements about "Jedi in their prime", a conflict this statement acknowledges, its obvious that the term "prime" is not supposed to be taken in an absolute sense. So there is definitely room for new eras like the SWTOR era to be stronger.

Personally I'd vouch for SWTOR, they are in my opinion visibly the strongest, most unified and with the most battle experience. However the PT Order have a lot going for them, including the best of the best among their top ranks.

I think it's important to look at the context in which Lucas is speaking. He's directly comparing the PT to the OT by saying that while there's only a few Jedi alive after Order 66, in the Clone Wars the Jedi are still in their prime and engaging in large scale conflicts on battlefields. Given that Lucas is admittedly ignorant of most of the EU (the factors he uses for reasons why the PT is the prime apply better to earlier periods), I think the best interpretation is that Lucas was simply referring to the whole timeline for the pre-RotS Jedi Order as their prime in the vague and casual way he often does, in comparison to what they are in ANH+. That we are seeing the Jedi Order intact and healthy.

This sits nicely with the other quote, since it doesn't say the PT isn't the Jedi in their prime, just that Kotor is even moreso.

Although speaking personally I don't see how either the PT or Kotor could be the Jedi at their prime, nor should be, since a theme of both series' is that the Jedi have been significantly weakened within and without and are bad at being Jedi. In Kotor half the Jedi were corrupted, they make bad decisions, commit evil actions, generally lack compassion and they were soon reduced to a handful of Jedi by the purge. And we all know the point of the PT was that the Jedi essentially fail, betray their ideals and **** up. And in both periods the general public turn on them. And of course, both era's see the Jedi as rather small and weak comparatively, with them taking heavy losses.

SWTOR era most likely.

FOTJ. The powerhouses are worth so much more than the numerous amounts of Rank and File sith of the SWTOR Era.

Sidious solo'd fleets with but a thought, BM'd the whole galaxy and literally did whatever the **** he wanted. Would much rather have him on my side than 100,000 average Sith Joes.

Pretty sure Sidious wasn't in FotJ.

Also Swtor had Vitiate, Vivicar, the First Son and the Dread Masters on top of their millions of Sith. I'd rather have a million extra Sith than idunno, Kyp Durron?

First Son is a part of Vitiate, and lol @ Vivicar still being relevant.