Originally posted by Selenial
FOTJ. The powerhouses are worth so much more than the numerous amounts of Rank and File sith of the SWTOR Era.Sidious solo'd fleets with but a thought, BM'd the whole galaxy and literally did whatever the **** he wanted. Would much rather have him on my side than 100,000 average Sith Joes.
Ancient Sith are at their best during TOR era.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Pretty sure Sidious wasn't in FotJ.Also Swtor had Vitiate, Vivicar, the First Son and the Dread Masters on top of their millions of Sith. I'd rather have a million extra Sith than idunno, Kyp Durron?
Irrelevant, talking about that general Era. And my point stands.
Besides, I'd take Luke, Jaina and Caedus above that entire list combined.
Hell, probably just Luke even.
Originally posted by Selenial
Irrelevant, talking about that general Era. And my point stands.Besides, I'd take Luke, Jaina and Caedus above that entire list combined.
Hell, probably just Luke even.
It really doesn't. Apart from Sidious, no-one else can be as effective as millions of Sith fighting across the galaxy at once and Sidious is doubtful as hell.
You'd put those 3 over Vitiate, Vivicar, First Son, Raptus, Bestia, Brontes, Calphayus, Styrak, Tyrans and millions of Sith? Huh, you're more of a fangirl than I thought.
Ok thats just dumb. Luke doesn't even do massive uses of the Force that could equal the contributions of the masters solo'ing whole fleets, let alone adding in the Children's unsurpassed spying and sabotage capabilities, Vivicar's plague and Vitiate doing whatever the shit he'd do. Eat the galaxy? Plus overwhelming Sith numbers winning countless battles across the galaxy? Please. 😬
Originally posted by Nephthys
It really doesn't. Apart from Sidious, no-one else can be as effective as millions of Sith fighting across the galaxy at once and Sidious is doubtful as hell.You'd put those 3 over Vitiate, Vivicar, First Son, Raptus, Bestia, Brontes, Calphayus, Styrak, Tyrans and millions of Sith? Huh, you're more of a fangirl than I thought.
Ok thats just dumb. Luke doesn't even do massive uses of the Force that could equal the contributions of the masters solo'ing whole fleets, let alone adding in the Children's unsurpassed spying and sabotage capabilities, Vivicar's plague and Vitiate doing whatever the shit he'd do. Eat the galaxy? Plus overwhelming Sith numbers winning countless battles across the galaxy? Please. 😬
Well obviously I wasn't including the millions of Sith, or I would have said I'd take the Jedi order in there as well.
You never get all those force users in one place though, pit Luke against say Vitiate and the First Son, he'd kill them. All 6 dread masters, gone. While Luke doesn't go for the large scale killing that Sidious does, thats because he's a Jedi. He certainly has the capability, and he would, in my opinion, be more beneficial than "Vitiate, Vivicar, First Son, Raptus, Bestia, Brontes, Calphayus, Styrak, Tyrans".
And you can call me a fangirl all you want, but I've barely read half those novels when I've played all 8 class stories about 4 times, my favorite film was ROTS and Kotor is my favorite Era by a landslide. The only biased one here is you, people have been saying that for years and there's a reason, Neph.
Originally posted by Selenial
Well obviously I wasn't including the millions of Sith, or I would have said I'd take the Jedi order in there as well.You never get all those force users in one place though, pit Luke against say Vitiate and the First Son, he'd kill them. All 6 dread masters, gone. While Luke doesn't go for the large scale killing that Sidious does, thats because he's a Jedi. He certainly has the capability, and he would, in my opinion, be more beneficial than "Vitiate, Vivicar, First Son, Raptus, Bestia, Brontes, Calphayus, Styrak, Tyrans".
And you can call me a fangirl all you want, but I've barely read half those novels when I've played all 8 class stories about 4 times, my favorite film was ROTS and Kotor is my favorite Era by a landslide. The only biased one here is you, people have been saying that for years and there's a reason, Neph.
This in general. Especially the bias part 👆
Originally posted by Selenial
Well obviously I wasn't including the millions of Sith, or I would have said I'd take the Jedi order in there as well.You never get all those force users in one place though, pit Luke against say Vitiate and the First Son, he'd kill them. All 6 dread masters, gone. While Luke doesn't go for the large scale killing that Sidious does, thats because he's a Jedi. He certainly has the capability, and he would, in my opinion, be more beneficial than "Vitiate, Vivicar, First Son, Raptus, Bestia, Brontes, Calphayus, Styrak, Tyrans".
And you can call me a fangirl all you want, but I've barely read half those novels when I've played all 8 class stories about 4 times, my favorite film was ROTS and the Kotor Era my favorite Era by a landslide. The only biased one here is you, people have been saying that for years and there's a reason, Neph.
The first thing you said was that you'd take the FotJ powerhouses over the rank and file of the Swtor era. To which I replied that Swtor has quantity and quality. So if you still think the FotJ powerhouses outweigh all that, you should clarify. But seriously, do you think that if all the Jedi and Sith from the swtor era took on all the Jedi and Sith from the "FotJ" era, the latter would win? Because they wouldn't.
That's not how it works though. You said that you'd take Luke over all of those guys, indicating that you either think he's more useful than all of them put together which is nuts because we've seen Skywalker fighting a war and he's nowhere near that effective, or you think he'd beat them all in a fight, which is also insane. Skywalker's big thing is to run up and kill the leader and he's very good at that. But he doesn't solo fleets or cause large scale damage. Apart from when he blew up the Death Star which any Jedi could have done.
The fangirl thing was a joke because I knew you hadn't meant to include the millions of Sith. You're so touchy. 😉
Originally posted by Selenial
You never get all those force users in one place though, pit Luke against say Vitiate and the First Son, he'd kill them. All 6 dread masters, gone. While Luke doesn't go for the large scale killing that Sidious does, thats because he's a Jedi. He certainly has the capability, and he would, in my opinion, be more beneficial than "Vitiate, Vivicar, First Son, Raptus, Bestia, Brontes, Calphayus, Styrak, Tyrans"
How exactly is Luke by himself more valuable than the collective efforts of Vitiate, Vivicar, First Son, and the Dread Masters, when discussing depth of eras? Or anything, really.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The first thing you said was that you'd take the FotJ powerhouses over the rank and file of the Swtor era. To which I replied that Swtor has quantity and quality. So if you still think the FotJ powerhouses outweigh all that, you should clarify. But seriously, do you think that if all the Jedi and Sith from the swtor era took on all the Jedi and Sith from the "FotJ" era, the latter would win? Because they wouldn't.That's not how it works though. You said that you'd take Luke over all of those guys, indicating that you either think he's more useful than all of them put together which is nuts because we've seen Skywalker fighting a war and he's nowhere near that effective, or you think he'd beat them all in a fight, which is also insane. Skywalker's big thing is to run up and kill the leader and he's very good at that. But he doesn't solo fleets or cause large scale damage. Apart from when he blew up the Death Star which any Jedi could have done.
The fangirl thing was a joke because I knew you hadn't meant to include the millions of Sith. You're so touchy. 😉
SWTOR Has quantity, it does not have Quality on the level of the FOTJ/NJO powerhouses. I can't think of a single Jedi or Sith (other than Vitiate) that holds a candle to Luke, Jaina, Caedus or many of the other strong individuals in that era. They simply had more powerful force users when you reached the peaks.
Now when you look at the SWTOR Empire, you see "a million Sith". I don't. For the Empire, Sith means acolytes. Sith means trainees, people who won't even make it off Korriban alive yet alone into the open Empire. We've seen those levels of people massacred by mercenaries, if you're looking for actual, competent, powerful individuals you'll find the number sits a lot lower.
I mean come on, when you walk around as a Lord in that game people are practically falling on their feet for you, Sith are gods and even the ****ing Romans didn't have "millions" of gods 😉
I'd put the actual number of strong, worthy and combative Sith at 100,000. Tops. Probably less.
And yes, I think the powerhouses of that Era are enough to make up for a difference like that. Especially if Sidious is in the equation, but even if he's not. They turn the tides of wars pretty solidly. Just put Luke and Leia against the fleet with Dread Masters in and they're gone.
Millions of Sith vie just for the Dark Council.
"Millions of the galaxies most powerful Sith" were considered for Scourge's replacement. So those Sith must be preeetty good to even be considered for the title of Emperor's Wrath.
Millions of people strive just to become a Sith at any one point.
So uh, yeah no. Millions of Sith.
The Swtor encyclopedia is literally the most retarded book ever created.
Hyperbolic statements are hyperbolic, I emailed both Drew (Who collaborated on that book and was the lead writer for pre launch SWTOR) and their current lead writer to finally settle this.
In universe sources are hardly accurate. I can poke hundreds of flaws in them, you can call me biased and ignore said holes. I guess it's just simpler to get an estimate from someone who actually means something.
No, whats retarded is that there isn't millions of Jedi and Sith in other era's. In a galaxy the scale of SW and battles that span entire planets it's stupid to think that an order of 10,000 could actually make any kind of difference.
I'm pretty sure they'll back the official encyclopedia and I don't see how that'll settle anything if they do contradict it.
Why would it be inaccurate on the numbers? That's pretty basic information on an organisation. Something that's repeated over and over again throughout the book.
SW battles don't tend to see large scale conflict like in the middle-ages and shit. There's no troop formations marching into battles under banners. That's not how we fight wars today, it's mostly urban conflicts. Bothawai was unprecedented because no-one had been thick enough to think that throwing wave after wave at an entrenched position was a good idea up til then.
There are millions of Sith spread out over hundreds of thousands to millions of planets. If there were just 5 Sith on each planet in the Empire you'd still need millions of them.
Originally posted by Selenial
Irrelevant, talking about that general Era. And my point stands.Besides, I'd take Luke, Jaina and Caedus above that entire list combined.
Hell, probably just Luke even.
Nobody is blaming you for being ignorant.
The Swtor encyclopedia is literally the most retarded book ever created.