Darth Plagueis vs. Emperor Vitiate

Don't know about combat, but Vitiate has the better TK feat.

Plagueis TK'd a group of Maladian assassins with such kinetic force that investigators later determined that they had been caught point-blank in a high grade explosion. This was Plagueis in a severely weakened state and was at the time directing his Force energy towards keeping himself alive.

It said he all but atomized them. He's also caused earthquakes, and blew a transparisteel canopy door on Tenebrous's ship, and shielded himself/ effortlessly lifted boulders that's were large enough to destroy his ship

I'm not saying Vitiate has the better combat TK feat, just better TK feat in general.

Bringing down the whole dark temple in DK whilst being in a weakened state.

So what? What proof do you have that he can replicate that showing without his amp? Plagueis has better showings by virtue of his own power, not while being juiced by Darkside energies like Vitiate

Dude, you have said Vitiate was 'immensely weakened' in his fight vs. HoT.

Now you're saying a full-power Vitiate can't replicate what a weakened state of himself accomplished previously?

*A section of the Dark Temple, not the entire thing.

Plagueis has the better TK feats for certain.

A massive section worth tons and tons of weight in stones.

A feat Plagueis has replicated and improved upon, when he killed his own master Tenebrous he built a massive pillar out of boulders large enough to crush a Freighter whilst protecting himself from similar sized boulders. Easily superior to tearing down a section of a thousand year old temple.

Not exactly. They were 'plummeting slabs' which were above Tenebrous. All Plagueis had to do was almost effortlessly use their own momentum in his favour and with the aid of gravity bring them down on his Master. It's not nearly as impressive as Vitiate's feat of bringing down a large part of a well-structured temple whilst being on a weakened state of himself. Full-power Vitiate would most likely have even better TK.

You ignored the important part of that feat. Plagueis lifted extremely boulders and piled them on-top of each other, reversing their momentum and providing him an exit through the vast hole above him. Unless I've forgotten said hole was very very high up.

It never says he 'lifted' them. In fact, it says he "aimed his raised hands at the plummeting slabs above his master". They were already airborne. It also doesn't say he 'piled them on top of each other', just that he brought them down with a lot of momentum.

You're referring to what happens after he kills Tenebrous. That's a different feat. This:

"From a spot mid-distance between the ship and rubble pile beneath the oculus, he immersed himself in the Force and, with gestures not unlike those he and Tenebrous had used in arresting the ceiling collapse, began to levitate slabs from the ship and add them to the rubble heap, stopping only when he had both exposed the hatch of the ship and was confident he could Force-leap through the oculus from atop the augmented pile."

It's not nearly as impressive as you point it out to be. And the size of the slabs isn't even mentioned. He doesn't reverse the momentum of anything and he simply Force-leaps through the hole.

They were large enough to trash his ship and he was piling them up whilst defending himself.

Plagueis probably has a deeper technical understanding of the Force while Vitiate has a stronger affinity for the Dark Side. I'd say they are comparable in power.

When it comes to rituals, Vitiate did the Nathema thing and took out a strike team of Sith Lords. Plagueis, with Sidious' help, performed a galactic scale ritual that could be felt by all force sensitives. Vitiate attempted to perform a vastly more impressive galactic scale ritual, but failed. I'd give Plagueis the edge here, but it could be argued either way.

Both have powerful lightning. Plagueis can light up caverns and valleys and has reduced non force sensitives to dust. Nyriss' lighting could reduce people to ash and Vitiate's lightning was considered far more powerful than hers. Vitiate has defeated strike teams of powerful Jedi with his lightning. Based on feats, I'd give Vitiate the edge, but I personally believe they have comparable lightning.

I don't know much about Vitiate's TK. It seems that he was able to do to Scourge the same thing that Yoda did to Ventress. Plagueis was able to all but atomize non force sensitives. A weakened Vitiate was able to collapse part of a temple. Plagueis was able to collapse part of a cave and pick some of the slabs of rock back up. I'd say they have comparable TK.

Both were able to create illusions of themselves.

Both altered their environments. Vitiate altered Dromund Kaas with his rituals. Naboo had its coldest winter in history when Plagueis went their. Just from experimenting with the Dark Side, Plagueis turned the lab on his home planet into dark side nexus that was powerful enough to shock even Sidious.

When it comes to speed, Plagueis moved so fast that even droids and cameras had trouble detecting him. Vitiate was able to avoid getting blitzed by strike teams of Jedi and the Hero of Tython. The Hero of Tython had managed to blitz several powerful Sith.

When it comes to lightsaber combat, Plagueis was able to outduel a Sith that was trained specifically to beat him. He, along with Sidious, fought an army of droids and an army of Kursid warriors. Vitiate fought, but lost, against the Hero of Tython. I'd give Plagueis the edge here.

Vitiate obviously completely dominates in the TP department, but I highly doubt he could mind dominate Plagueis.

Overall, I think this could go either way, but Plagueis' dueling skills might give him the edge.

Originally posted by AncientPower
They were large enough to trash his ship and he was piling them up whilst defending himself.

Uh, no. There was nothing to defend against. The explosion was over, and the slabs were either on the ground or atop the crushed ship. And a shitload of medium-sized stones crashing and flying at extremely high speeds can easily crush a ship.

Weakened-state Vitiate's feat is considerably more impressive.

His death caused an earthquake, it wasn't a TK feat. If you want to compare death explosions, Plagueis caused Coruscant to quake upon his own.

Vitiate explicitly calls out HoT and tells him that he will not let him escape the temple. Immediately after that, the temple starts to fall apart. Nothing ever indicates his death caused it. The evidence points towards him being the one who chose to bring it down to kill HoT.

Look, my point is that you can't underestimate Vitiate's TK. It's also very, very impressive. I'm not saying Plagueis' isn't, in fact, I agree it's incredibly impressive, as well.

Him saying that the HoT will die with him is a threat, substantiated only by the fact his body dying and his spirit leaving has caused a localised eruption in the Force that damages the temple heavily.

By comparison causing Coruscant to suffer an earthquake because of Plagueis' death is far more impressive.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Him saying that the HoT will die with him is a threat, substantiated only by the fact his body dying and his spirit leaving has caused a localised eruption in the Force that damages the temple heavily.

By comparison causing Coruscant to suffer an earthquake because of Plagueis' death is far more impressive.

Plagueis didn't threaten anybody. Vitiate threatened him and literally immediately after that, the temple starts to fall apart. I concede that it's not perfectly clear whether or not he crushed the temple with his TK or his death, but imo the evidence leans towards him being the one attempting to bringing it down on HoT.

He is threatening him as a result of it, he is dying or dead how is he going to perform such a tk feat?