Speed Rankings

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
No worries, anyways back to the matrix comparison, even those agents got hit with that minigun Neo used from the chopper. Kinda hard to dodge all those bullets from guns like those. Him getting grazed by one vs being pummeled is big difference.

Direct hit, not grazed. :-p projectile didn't deflect, it scored a flat rear torso hit.

And I agree. Never saw Agents as actual bullet timers on average.

The way the matrix works (IMO) is that they have to "cheat" the system for a short time to perform certain "feats" beyond their average displays of ability. That is why they are inconsistent, that is also why he could dodge multiple bullets fired at close range but failed to dodge a gun aimed at his head seconds later. This explains Neo's short bullet time moment soon after. Neo replicated the ability.

That is IMO anyway.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I guess Lois has superhuman durability, seeing as she tanked being grabbed and carried at mach 5,000.

She does remember? She took on a Kryptonian with full powers, survived re entry into earth atmosphere and survived the black hole. 🤣

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Direct hit, not grazed. :-p projectile didn't deflect, it scored a flat rear torso hit.

And I agree. Never saw Agents as actual bullet timers on average.

The way the matrix works (IMO) is that they have to "cheat" the system for a short time to perform certain "feats" beyond their average displays of ability. That is why they are inconsistent, that is also why he could dodge multiple bullets fired at close range but failed to dodge a gun aimed at his head seconds later. This explains Neo's short bullet time moment soon after. Neo replicated the ability.

That is IMO anyway.

So then we really can't compare the two feats with miniguns involved with MoS and the Agents because the agents were considered bullet timers but they had their limits and got hit with a mini gun. And comparing a hand gun dodging feat between the agents and MoS would not be a good comparison because its a slower cyclic rate, slower bullet and less rounds down range. But we could say that without a doubt MoS dodged all of them but one, and the agents failed to dodge any. Agreeable?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
So then we really can't compare the two feats with miniguns involved with MoS and the Agents because the agents were considered bullet timers but they had their limits and got hit with a mini gun. And comparing a hand gun dodging feat between the agents and MoS would not be a good comparison because its a slower cyclic rate, slower bullet and less rounds down range. But we could say that without a doubt MoS dodged all of them but one, and the agents failed to dodge any. Agreeable?

I didn't compare them. I was just being snippy.

uhuh

Edit. And he technically didn't dodge the bullets per se. At least not the way the agent dodged the gunfire on that rooftop scene. He tried to get out of the way and still ended up getting hit. He had a good second or two to get out of the way, too. 😛

😂

Originally posted by Nibedicus
1) Let me be clear: I am not disputing the MoS speed "feats" in this thread. If you have them, post them. But if you measure his superspeed based using his his flight speed, then I will argue it. As it is, you are not doing that.

Although it does make sense as they seem to be still be discovering their powers and it could be that some personalities are more disposed towards certain attributes. Zod developed flight sooner (with less time under the sun, I mean) than Kal, for example. Even thought Kal had a longer exposure to sunlight he may still be discovering some of his powers and it could be part of how his story unfolds in the sequel. From a logical and storytelling point of view, it makes sense.

That said, I'm not saying this is what is happening here, just that this is a more than plausible explanation.

2) Except that this reply has nothing to do with MoS. This reply has to do with the poor "logic" Stealth presented and the flawed "logic" presented in the fake fallacy he posted.

His false fallacy states that if one posseses travel speed, the ability to react in that speed and the ability to percieve others at that speed exists then superspeed exists. My example meets all 3 criteria.

You must understand that "being able to percieve others in that speed" when being in supersonic speed has a lot to do with reacting within the time frame allowed outside one's inertial frame (as yes, you can still percieve things moving at supersonic speed although you have a limited time to view it until it passes your field of view given it is moving in a straight line and it is big enough to be seen from X distance) and moving yourself within said inertial frame to allow for dogfighting (or outside of it if you are the one being pursued). That still fits the criteria of "percieve X while moving at Y speed" and is one of the reasons why the false "fallacy's" logic is so flawed.

Hey man, never said I disagreed with you. In fact, some of my post directly supports some of your flight argument against the flying while fighting thing. Was just clearing up my previous post (might have come across like I was coming at you, but was just commenting generally on MoS), and was also why I posted a clip of Supes zipping between buildings, because it actually provides a visible example of him rapidly reacting at high speeds, instead of just him fighting.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Hey man, never said I disagreed with you. In fact, some of my post directly supports some of your flight argument against the flying while fighting thing. Was just clearing up my previous post (might have come across like I was coming at you, but was just commenting generally on MoS), and was also why I posted a clip of Supes zipping between buildings, because it actually provides a visible example of him rapidly reacting at high speeds, instead of just him fighting.

Ok then.

uhuh

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I didn't compare them. I was just being snippy.

uhuh

Edit. And he technically didn't dodge the bullets per se. At least not the way the agent dodged the gunfire on that rooftop scene. He tried to get out of the way and still ended up getting hit. He had a good second or two to get out of the way, too. 😛

Thats why I was saying you cant compare them to froth, because the handgun bullet dodge is way different then Supes mini gun dodge, because a few bullets from a hand gun is a big difference. And honestly, MoS would not even try to dodge handgun bullets. When the military was unloading on him later, they were just bouncing off.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Thats why I was saying you cant compare them the handgun bullet dodge to Supes mini gun dodge, because a few bullets from a hand gun is a big difference. And honestly, MoS would not even try to dodge handgun bullets. When the military was unloading on him later, they were just bouncing off.

Well, I think those two are apples and oranges as well. So I will agree.

My method is simply to take each character's most quantifiable top "feat" individually and try and quantify the "feats" directly thru math and compare reaction time once the math comes. I see Superman failing to dodge gunfire as a low showing myself and thus would quickly disqualify it from being presented in this thread under the normal circumstances. But thanks to someone's insistence of defending and including a retarded false fallacy, we're at this unknown point of the thread's de-evolution....

🙁

I still find their argument that the entire Superman/Zod fight only took 1 maybe 1.5 seconds.

Say we put Quicksilver and MoS in a quarter mile circle track, MoS is flying, QS is running. They begin to fight but going the same speed. Is that considered combat speed feat?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Say we put Quicksilver and MoS in a quarter mile circle track, MoS is flying, QS is running. They begin to fight while moving fast but going the same speed. Is that considered combat speed feat?

If we follow thread rules? Well:

If it is just running around, relative to their perception, they are going at 0 mph. Then no.

However, if Superman keeps up with Quicksilver's speed movement speed and starts dodging a hail of punches or vice versa (if you can time/count em and he throws them several in a second, world record is close to 10 per second using both hands, I think), it would be super speed. Then yes.

Or if the surroundings slow down and Superman and Quicksilver start trading blows at normal/fast speed while the rest of the world slows down (aka Quicksilver vision as they called it IIRC). Then yes.

If he simply tags Quicksilver, we need to ascertain the circumstances behind it. Did he score a lucky hit? Did he simply anticipate QS's direction and aimed accordingly? Did QS slow down for some reason! Etc. if the circumstances fits superspeed, then yes. If not, no.

If it is done offscreen, then it is not quantifiable, and is thus, inadmissible.

Fair?

Lunch time. Brb!

I can say without a doubt that QS perception and brain works faster based on him going over every detail of Erik and Charles personal information.

I can't say without a doubt that because he was able to dodge some plastic bullets and KO a bunch of cannon fodder he would be faster then MoS flying at full speed.

Can QS perceive a threat quicker, yes. But can he deal with any threat above the level of some cannon fodder, we cant assume that.

We do know that force=mass X acceleration. What does that mean to MoS, well kryptonian punches were throwing off shockwaves and sonic booms. So we know their punches are extremely fast.

We also know that Namek sent a train flying like a toy car at an extreme rate of speed. So we know that the force they exert has great acceleration.

Based on this, I can conclude that while QS has faster perception of time, and fast movement, but I can also say that Kryptonians have super speed of there own at a greater degree because there punches pack such a huge punch. If they were not able to move there arms and feet extremely fast, then you would no see fast flying trains and all the other stuff they did.

Comparing QS and Kryptonian speed is like comparing apples to oranges.

Comparing Flash to Quicksilver is more appropriate because they are on the same level, both land based glass speedsters.

It doesn't really work that way for people with superstrength, otherwise the Hulk would need to have massive superspeed as his punch had enough force to stop a Leviathan.

Originally posted by Silent Master
It doesn't really work that way for people with superstrength, otherwise the Hulk would need to have massive superspeed as his punch had enough force to stop a Leviathan.

What does the speed of a person to determine Superspeed though.

It seems like there is different levels.

Does it have to be shown in time slow like Immortals and Smallville and DOFP to be considered Superspeed?

Do we know exactly how fast QS was moving?

People have done calcs on his speed, but I don't recall what number they came up with.

Ok here is was calculated at
http://www.wired.com/2014/06/whos-faster-flash-or-quicksilver/
9151 mph..

So we can assume it takes Quicksilver 9151mph to get the time slow affect?

Since MoS was easily moving that speed via flying, we could say that he can move at the same speed and get that affect?

He can fly at that speed. I'm still not convinced he can react at those speeds nor do complicated maneuvers at those speeds.

Originally posted by FrothByte
He can fly at that speed. I'm still not convinced he can react at those speeds nor do complicated maneuvers at those speeds.

Never said he could replicate QS feats, I saying he can fight in super speed.