Star Trek Beyond

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Say what you want about those BS RT scores. The audience have spoken on this through their dollars, and they weren't impressed.

Doesn't matter if it outgrosses the last 2 worldwide, because the international market has massively grown since then.

Domestic figures tell us more for comparisons purposes. And this has failed.

Just to note..this mantra goes for all films, right? Not just Trek films? Like we can call films a failure based strictly on what they earn, correct? I just want to be sure here because people seem to flip flop on what is more important the money or the reviews so I want to nail it down.

Originally posted by Surtur
Just to note..this mantra goes for all films, right? Not just Trek films? Like we can call films a failure based strictly on what they earn, correct? I just want to be sure here because people seem to flip flop on what is more important the money or the reviews so I want to nail it down.

I mean money can certainly be a sign of the greatness of the product, but if so why was everyone whining about Batman vs Superman? It made doe.

Two of the highest grossing movies ever were kind of...dog shit from a story stand point(Titanic and Avatar).

Originally posted by Surtur
Just to note..this mantra goes for all films, right? Not just Trek films? Like we can call films a failure based strictly on what they earn, correct? I just want to be sure here because people seem to flip flop on what is more important the money or the reviews so I want to nail it down.

Depends sometimes

At times its best to go with the reviews because there has been times where going strictly "with how much its earn" and it gets considered a failure/Flop and its a good movie.

Originally posted by Surtur
Just to note..this mantra goes for all films, right? Not just Trek films? Like we can call films a failure based strictly on what they earn, correct? I just want to be sure here because people seem to flip flop on what is more important the money or the reviews so I want to nail it down.

No. Many good films never get the hype or recognition in the first place. But that's clearly not true with Trek as it had much better domestic numbers for the last 2 films.

Audiences just haven't responded well to This one. You can blame marketing for a poorer OW than the last 2 (or perhaps the marketing team did their job, but the film just didn't look good to people), but it's slow/poor multiplier at these numbers suggests poor WOM.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
No. Many good films never get the hype or recognition in the first place. But that's clearly not true with Trek as it had much better domestic numbers for the last 2 films.

Audiences just haven't responded well to This one. You can blame marketing for a poorer OW than the last 2 (or perhaps the marketing team did their job, but the film just didn't look good to people), but it's slow/poor multiplier at these numbers suggests poor WOM.

I see, so who gets to decide when a movie has or has not received enough hype?

I mean, SW's received so much hype compared to Avatar I feel like it should of made 10 times as much money, but it didn't. So did SW's fail, to you? It likewise has a billion times more recognition as well.

A film's success is a combination of the recognition it receives and money earned.

Take The Big Lebowski (1998), cost 15mil to make, brought in about 45 million, it initially came and went in the theaters, I happened to catch it a few days after release. But since then it's gathered a rather large cult following and people will be talking about it for years to come still. An example of not that great in earnings, but high in recognition.

Edit: Compare that to something like Transformers 4, that earned over a billion, but do you think anyone will care about the film in 20 years?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
No. Many good films never get the hype or recognition in the first place. But that's clearly not true with Trek as it had much better domestic numbers for the last 2 films.

Audiences just haven't responded well to This one. You can blame marketing for a poorer OW than the last 2 (or perhaps the marketing team did their job, but the film just didn't look good to people), but it's slow/poor multiplier at these numbers suggests poor WOM.

Not necessarily. There are many other possible reasons why the film hasn’t done as well as the previous two. Things like stiffer competition, less interest in ST, etc… And no, marketing plays not only into the OW but throughout the entire run.

Are people less interested in Trek? I dunno. Just to me this latest film never looked right. Or rather just didn't feel right. It didn't feel bad, but it did have this feeling of "not as good as it used to be". I didn't get that feeling from the trailers for Into Darkness.

Originally posted by Surtur
I see, so who gets to decide when a movie has or has not received enough hype?

I mean, SW's received so much hype compared to Avatar I feel like it should of made 10 times as much money, but it didn't. So did SW's fail, to you? It likewise has a billion times more recognition as well.

Huh? Kind of missing the point.. You're comparing 2 completely different franchises. Avatar took 3D special effects to a whole new level. It didn't just have hype on its side, but long lasting legs. People kept saying "you have to see this, it's such a Beautiful looking film."

I'm comparing this Trek movie to the last 2 Trek movies. Same franchise of films. Audiences clearly didn't respond well to this one, given how much better the last 2 did. Not just on OW, but in terms of its box office legs. I don't see what's to argue here tbh.

It was same with X-Men Apocalypse this year. Audiences clearly haven't taken to it as well as they did with the last one in the series. A shit Apocalypse in a film called X-Men Apocalypse will do that.

You see this just goes to show the importance trailers play and how they can sour the feeling you had from a prior film. Star Trek Into Darkness was an awesome film. Days of Future Past was an awesome film. The films that followed just..I guess the only thing to say is they didn't deliver. After 1st Class.DOFP delivered. Same with Star Trek and Into Darkness..but for some reason getting that 3rd film in the trilogy right isn't always easy. The trailers didn't make it seem like they'd deliver and while the movies weren't bad they weren't as good as they could of been.

Almost as if they were really excited after the first film to work on the second film, but when it came time for the third film they just kind of phoned it in.

Lol@ Worf snapping a guys neck just for making a comment to Ezri about Dr. Bashir's feelings for her.

Beyond suffered from not being marketed as heavily also, I would imagine. Not to mention having different people involved creatively.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
No. Many good films never get the hype or recognition in the first place. But that's clearly not true with Trek as it had much better domestic numbers for the last 2 films.

Audiences just haven't responded well to This one. You can blame marketing for a poorer OW than the last 2 (or perhaps the marketing team did their job, but the film just didn't look good to people), but it's slow/poor multiplier at these numbers suggests poor WOM.

Originally posted by Surtur
Are people less interested in Trek? I dunno. Just to me this latest film never looked right. Or rather just didn't feel right. It didn't feel bad, but it did have this feeling of "not as good as it used to be". I didn't get that feeling from the trailers for Into Darkness.

Paramount also had a shit marketing campaign.

Originally posted by playa1258
Paramount also had a shit marketing campaign.

Originally posted by playa1258
Paramount also had a shit marketing campaign.

I mean it was a shit movie. So they just did the best they could with bad material.

The 3rd movie curse strikes again.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I mean it was a shit movie. So they just did the best they could with bad material.

Well, that's what happens when you decide to use tons of references a lot of people won't get instead of an actual plot.