Darth Vader vs. Iron Man

Originally posted by ares834
Like I said I'd say it's over-analyzing it.

You blackballed me, because I disagreed that all energy is equivelant? And then you want to say I am over analysing it? The problem is, I know, for a fact, that not all energy acts or reacts the same way. This is basic physics knowledge.

Originally posted by ares834
😂

I'm not altering any stance. As I said right from the start:

Which countermands your entire argument against me. You now confuse me, and everyone else, because you blast me for using analysis and logical reasoning regarding Vader's blocking of blaster bolts being entirely different from Dooku and Yoda. Then you try to shut down the debate with a handwave of "Over Analysing" because you couldn't rationally explain it outside of "Energy is Energy, regardless of type, method of use ect, ect."

Lazy, lazy debating tactic. You should not have even addressed my point if you weren't prepared to actually take the time to talk about it.

The problem is you haven't provided any evidence for your claim as well. You say that the energy is different and that appears true enough. But the notion that Vader's glove can deflect blaster bolts isn't supported by the films at all by contrast using the force to deflect energy is. That's my argument in a nutshell.

As for why I hand waved it, it's because it's a movie. Real world physics only go so far.

Originally posted by ares834
The problem is you haven't provided any evidence for your claim as well. You say that the energy is different and that appears true enough. But the notion that Vader's glove can deflect blaster bolts isn't supported by the films at all by contrast using the force to deflect energy is. That's my argument in a nutshell.

Using the force to react fast enough to block the bolts is clear and evident. Less evident, however, is HOW he blocked them. Either the force, or an energy resistant armored glove coupled with his cybernetic hands is an assumption either way. I chose the path that doesn't simply rely on a completely different set of circumstances to justify it. I chose what I consider to be the more reasonable and logical conclusion.

Originally posted by ares834
As for why I hand waved it, it's because it's a movie. Real world physics only go so far.

That's not a reason, that's an excuse. And not a very good one.

All that said, I don't see why I invest this much time on it, it doesn't really bother me all that much, especially considering I am barely here on KMC anymore...

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Using the force to react fast enough to block the bolts is clear and evident. Less evident, however, is HOW he blocked them. Either the force, or an energy resistant armored glove coupled with his cybernetic hands is an assumption either way. I chose the path that doesn't simply rely on a completely different set of circumstances to justify it. I chose what I consider to be the more reasonable and logical conclusion.

Fair enough. I'd disagree as my explanation has some basis in the films.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
That's not a reason, that's an excuse. And not a very good one.

Nah. It's the best excuse.

Originally posted by ares834
Fair enough. I'd disagree as my explanation has some basis in the films.

I suppose if you are looking for an in-movie example of Vader's suit being energy resistant, I need look no further than it shrugging off a glancing blow form a Lightsaber in the same movie.

Originally posted by ares834
Nah. It's the best excuse.

Not really. Even movies need some foundations. 😛

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I suppose if you are looking for an in-movie example of Vader's suit being energy resistant, I need look no further than it shrugging off a glancing blow form a Lightsaber in the same movie.

Not his glove however. It appears to be his thicker shoulder armor. Meanwhile, in RotJ, Luke easily cuts through his wrist.

Originally posted by ares834
Not his glove however. It appears to be his thicker shoulder armor. Meanwhile, in RotJ, Luke easily cuts through his wrist.

His glove covers a cybernetic hand, which is made of unknown materials in and of itself.

That said, a glancing hit from a lightsaber is definitely not the same as a full on strike from one. Luke was like Ray Charles at the batters plate at that point, going f**king nuts.

Luke cleaved through both the glove and cybernetic arm though.

Also lightsaber blades seem to be different energy from blaster bolts. 😉

Originally posted by ares834
Luke cleaved through both the glove and cybernetic arm though.

Yes, because it was a full on strike, and not a glancing hit.

You'll notice that when Luke struck Ani's shoulder, he didn't have much power behind that swing, yet he was able to cause Vader pain. Then, when he lopped Vader's hand off, he managed to put all his strength into that hit, and Vader's arm was trapped against the fence.

Originally posted by ares834
Also lightsaber blades seem to be different energy from blaster bolts. 😉

Yes, they are. Blasters (And most energy weapons in SW actually) are actually particle beam weapons that detonate on impact. Lightsabers are thermal photon beams, these heat up when in contact with matter, but don't explode violently, otherwise they wouldn't function as swords. Force Lightning is not a coherent beam of energy, and it is conjured through a quasi-mythical "source of all life" .... thing, much like Dragonball's Chi in a sense.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Yes, because it was a full on strike, and not a glancing hit.

You'll notice that when Luke struck Ani's shoulder, he didn't have much power behind that swing, yet he was able to cause Vader pain. Then, when he lopped Vader's hand off, he managed to put all his strength into that hit, and Vader's arm was trapped against the fence.

It wasn't a glancing blow. It was a full two handed swing. Although, I'll admit, it certainly didn't have as much power behind.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Yes, they are. Blasters (And most energy weapons in SW actually) are actually particle beam weapons that detonate on impact. Lightsabers are thermal photon beams, these heat up when in contact with matter, but don't explode violently, otherwise they wouldn't function as swords. Force Lightning is not a coherent beam of energy, and it is conjured through a quasi-mythical "source of all life" .... thing, much like Dragonball's Chi in a sense.

Once again you are bringing up the EU where force absorb can be used on blasters. Regardless, in the EU there are multiple explanations for what lightsabers and blasters are. Lightsaber blades are most commonly claimed to be plasma while blaster bolts are, like you said, typically portrayed as particle beam weapons. The two are very different.

Originally posted by ares834
It wasn't a glancing blow. It was a full two handed swing. Although, I'll admit, it certainly didn't have as much power behind.

Except it was not, it was a one handed swing from across his body

Originally posted by ares834
Once again you are bringing up the EU where force absorb can be used on blasters. Regardless, in the EU there are multiple explanations for what lightsabers and blasters are. Lightsaber blades are most commonly claimed to be plasma while blaster bolts are, like you said, typically portrayed as particle beam weapons. The two are very different.

What the f..... no I am not. I never even mentioned absorbing of energy weapons fire! I'm pretty bloody sure I am AGAINST that line of thought. Why do you keep stating I am using the EU, when I have explicitly stated to you that I do not even know where that was done?

Nope. Two handed swing.

I was saying you brought up the EU by saying blasters are particle beam weapons. Simply because blasters are never mentioned to be particle beam weapons in the films nor are lightsaber stated to "thermal photon beams". That's from the EU (well at least the former is).

Don't mind Ares, he struggles with Star Wars material

Still butt hurt from that Gothmog/Sauron debate?

Originally posted by ares834

Nope. Two handed swing.

I was saying you brought up the EU by saying blasters are particle beam weapons. Simply because blasters are never mentioned to be particle beam weapons in the films nor are lightsaber stated to "thermal photon beams". That's from the EU (well at least the former is).

I'm going to go ahead and say that that is a blow TO THE FRIGGING NECK!!!

Eh, no. I'm simply stating it because they are powered by Tibanna gas. That, I never took from the EU.

Looks that way. Swear the sparks come from the shoulder though.

Where did you get that from then? Certainly don't remember it being mentioned in the films.

Originally posted by ares834
Looks that way. Swear the sparks come from the shoulder though.

It did. But this shot proves that the SXF were not.... entirely.... accurate 😛

Originally posted by ares834
Where did you get that from then? Certainly don't remember it being mentioned in the films.

Mostly it is the radio plays, and the graphic novels of the original trilogy, which from what I remember shared equal canon with the movies.

Nope. They are EU and have no bearing in this forum.

Vader's neck tanked a lightsabre, IM can't do a single thing to him /thread

Originally posted by ares834
Nope. They are EU and have no bearing in this forum.

Wrong, so wrong. I'm not talking comics or EU novels, or shit like that.