Originally posted by Selenial
I mean, raw power wise they're pretty close...And I'm saying that you cannot extrapolate a temporary advantage in a small portion of the fight to the whole fight. Especially when that advantage is minimal.
And yes, I've admitted several times she didn't predict his outrageous force potential, shocker.
Obviously resisting the Sarlaac would tax his power, but it would tax it less than his rage would boost it. Seeing as you seem so obsessed with game mechanics, I'd refer you to the Sarlaac repulse in the game version of the fight, where he charges his power into a force repulse...
@Sel: Just to clarify there are some points between you and Emp that I don't know the full context of and thus have decided to leave unaddressed. I'll allow Emp to get to them if he wants.
Potential-wise they were equals.
"The Apprentice is the photo negative of Luke Skywalker. He's been raised by Darth Vader, and is what Luke would have become if he had joined his father. Vader's not a very nice daddy. This guy has been raised to be a Jedi. When the Jedi use the Force, they respect it and don't overuse it. The bad guys - the Sith - keep testing their limits. Vader discovered this person who had the potential to be the most powerful Force user ever. He's up there with the top tier. He's extremely powerful. Vader has trained him in such a way that he just kept pushing his limitations, seeing how far he could use the Force. So, where a normal Jedi might use the Force to trick his way past a few stormtroopers, the apprentice might use the Force to bring down an adjacent building on top of those stormtroopers. He's extremely confident in everything he does. He's been trained by Vader to be an assassin, an unstoppable force." - Insider 100.
Raw power wise Starkiller by ESB is far ahead of an untrained Luke.
If we're talking solely about the game and there's no instance of Shaak gaining an advantage over Galen then you can kind of can. They're fighting before that, the QTE's are just reference points for major shifts in the fight.
So, despite having noted in the novel that his strength was prodigious presumably having reached out to sense his power and having a conversation about it she didn't know how powerful he was? :/
Where are you getting the idea that Galen was enraged in the first place let alone that such a potential amp would cancel out the energy he would need to put into his strength and durability to keep from being crushed by the sarlaac.
Originally posted by MythLord
While I admit that is a possibility, given Shaak Ti's faster and more skilled than Galen, as shown throughout the entire fight, she would have been the one to land the strike first, which would ultimately mean Galen wouldn't successfully impale her(might scar her, but a headless corpse certainly can't hold a lightsaber in place long enough and steady enough to fully pierce her) and she would have won.Again, Galen seems to think that's a desperation tactic, doesn't mean it actually was. She could have simply overextended, Galen acted on reflex and managed to stop her final attack and impale her.
I do think it shows who was in fact the superior throughout the entire fight if Galen would only get a lucky shot-in and Shaak could ravage his body like a rancor and land dozens of blows on him.
@Wolf: Same as Sel. I'll only address the points that I understand the context of or that I can blatantly point out as wrong.
Where is Shaak shown to be faster or more skilled? The former doesn't make much sense as she should have logically inferior augmentation. This isn't mentioning the fact that the few times she pressed him during the attack were when had a positioning advantage and Galen was focused on regaining even ground over fighting Shaak Ti. I point this out on a post on the last page. Would you like me to quote it for you?
Given they have a discussion about the subject of Shaak's waning endurance right before I'd assume you, being the ( for the most part ) logical debater you are, would agree that it's the most likely reason. Considering the post I mentioned above addresses this as well I'll be posting it at the bottom of my responses for you to read over as it is relevant to the section of your post I addressed.
_____
"So first off we have the fight starting off with Shaak in a superior position having a height advantage over Galen which allows her to generate a greater amount of kinetic force behind her blows then normal putting Galen off balance at the beginning of the fight.
"She smiled in mockery. "Are you prepared to meet your fate?" Then her lightsaber was lit and she was spinning through the air toward him, striking downward as she fell.
The apprentice simultaneously backflipped and blocked her opening blow. The force of it surprised him, and the recoil threw him backward. His hood caught on one of the sarlacc's teeth, and he tore it impatiently away before the snag could interfere with his defense. Shaak Ti's lightsaber was a jagged blue blur between them. He blocked her as best he could until he had his balance again." - The Force Unleashed.
He attempts to put distance between himself and Shaak but because he does not the place their fighting in like Shaak does he ends up plunging down into the maw of the sarlaac yet again allowing Shaak to gain the high ground.
"Then he jumped. Over her he spun and fell down two layers of teeth toward the mouth of the sarlacc. From there he jumped up again, angling away from her to avoid giving the Jedi the advantage of height, but she was there ahead of him, driving him back down with a series of blows so rapid he barely caught them all." - The Force Unleashed.
Note that at this time he's trying to get back to the edge of the sarlaac pit and out of its maw so meeting the strikes of a person with a high ground advantage as he's ascending is going to be especially hard to counter.
_____
Using a bolt of Sith lightning on the sarlaac Galen is able to regain even ground with Shaak.
"He summoned a bolt of Sith lightning and sent it down, into the flesh of the sarlacc. The beast roared and shook, giving him the opening he needed. Shaak Ti's right foot slipped, forcing her to flip elegantly out of reach of his blade. He leapt after her, swinging as he came." - The Force Unleashed.
As you can probably imagine the fight progresses much more evenly now that Shaak's advantages have been used up.
"The fight progressed around the sarlacc's center rings, blow and counterblow accompanied by the roaring of the beast. The apprentice cut off teeth and threw the fragments at his adversary's head. In return she took tighter control of the beast's distributed intelligence and sent its food-seeking tentacles flailing for him. He repulsed them and fought on.
Down they drove each other, closer and closer to the very lip of the creature's enormous mouth.
They then have an exchange which reveals why Shaak attempted her suicidal move. She knew she was running out of energy faster then Galen.
"You can't keep this up forever," he taunted Shaak Ti as they dueled.
"Neither can you," she said. "You are wasting your strength too quickly."
"The dark side is inexhaustible."
"Your strength is prodigious," she admitted, "but that is your doing." - The Force Unleashed.
Galen then proceeds to remove one of Shaak's lekku indicating the shift in the fight.
"He slashed at her own feet as they spun by overhead and sent one of her ribbons twirling down into the sarlacc's gaping mouth. "Spare me the philosophy lesson, Jedi," he snarled. "I'm only here for your blood." - The Force Unleashed.
This is when Shaak attempts to take Galen down with her in moves that find their mark but ultimately fail. And luck isn't a thing. If Galen hadn't had the honed reflexes he did all the luck in the world wouldn't have saved him. I'm not claiming he blocked the blow out of skill as that was clearly not the case but to claim that Galen only managed to do so because of convenience is lazy and biased."
_____
Given the circumstances of Galen having exhausted energy beforehand having fought through armies of Felucians and rancors to get there ( something that is consistent throughout all 3 depictions of the fight ) and the fact that the only landed blows in the fight until Shaak's desperation move at the end of the fight was was Galen slicing off one of Shaak's lekku, I don't feel such a comparison favors Shaak.
Funfact: Zoltan was the only one who's responses to Emp I had no trouble understanding the context of or responding to. As always his points were bullshit attempts at ignoring context, misdirection and ad hominem. Congrats Zoltan. You're literally the most predictable and easy to debate opponent here. 🙂
Originally posted by Selenial
I wouldn't group it like that, tbh. I'm avoiding the more general argument, just enjoying DMB jump through hoops to justify his blatantly false statements earlier....mmm
Actually, scratch the above, pretty sure I can speak for myself, Wollf and Zoltan when I say; if anyone actually cared about your opinion on literally any topic, that might have been a decent attempt at bait 🙂
And he doesn't even realize that you aren't remotely invested in this lol.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
I bought Fated with Overwatch memes.
🙂
Originally posted by Ursumeles
He only wants your body.
I want to ****ing play Overwatch with him tbfh.
Holy f-uck, I shouldn't have read Syn's post. It's pure cancer. I've seen retarded posts before, but this tops them. You should've left it to DMB, you hold him back more than anything.
If anyone was wondering, this is why I don't debate with this retard 😂
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
QTE's are depictions of events that occurs after the opponents have fought for a while. They're reference points for major shifts in the fight.Sounds like you're trying to redirect.
Still not canon, still doesn't matter 🙂
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Given you refuse to even read or address my posts I'd say you're not the most qualified person to judge such a thing. Just a thought.
You earned that. So far I only ignore yours and Legend's arguments. That should tell you something.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
You mean kind of like how Revan's barrier was torn through by Vitiate and his melted flesh fused with his mask yet he wasn't thrown back? Lmao.
Damn, I should read your arguments more often actually. It's fascinating how can someone be this ****ing retarded. Let me break it down to you:
Force lightning shocks people. Repulse throws people back.
So why'd you bring up an instance where the attack wasn't something that exerts force (as in Newtons) on the subject?
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Nice cut of that image where it shows Shaak facing the blast with raised hands. Holy shit. You must be the biggest ****ing hypocrite on the planet. How do you even have the gall to accuse others of ignoring context?
For the sake of my sanity I'm gona presume you didn't actually read my debate with DMB. But having known your mental capacity I kinda know deep down that you did, you just aren't that bright to decipher what was going on.
So let me walk you through it: DMB and I are aware of the panel where Shaak has her hands raised. We argued about it for several pages now. So who am I trying to deceive here exactly?
And as you so hilariously missed it, my point was that Shaak was hit by the attack before she could raise her hand, which my picture shows.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
And what's that highlighted portion supposed to be? Shaak Ti? The reaching you're doing would impress Sonny Liston. But to entertain this notion for moment if that was Shaak Ti what's that raised mass attached to the left side of her body which is coincidentally facing the blast? Christ Zoltan, your debating really is as shit as your trolling.
As I'm constantly praised for my shit talking and trolling I'll take that as a compliment. You on the other hand shouldn't what I'm about to say.
You actually impress me. I'm having a hard time phrasing what I want to say here. You act retarded so many times that I feel bad constantly calling you one, it lacks imagination. Who would've thought it's so hard to call someone retarded 5+ times without repeating yourself. Well I kinda failed at that, for that I'm sorry. Still, you are an imbecile, let me tell you why 🙂
So if that very humanoid figure is not Shaak in your opinion then who do you think it is? Santa? Jesus? I dunno, but I think it's Shaak. Could it be Shaak? I'm not sure...
As for what's "the raised mass attached to her left side" is suppose to be? Well, let's see mmm
Wait I got an idea. I think it might be this:
It's called a Lekku, look it up 🙂
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I imagine he's asking you to take a breath and try to calm down for your own sake. You seem like you're about to have an aneurysm tbh.
Does it make you guys feel better thinking that I'm upset? Don't flatter yourselves thinking that your shit tier arguments make me feel anything other than amusement.
And yeah, clearly I'm the upset:
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Christ Zoltan, your debating really is as shit as your trolling.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Holy shit. You must be the biggest ****ing hypocrite on the planet. How do you even have the gall to accuse others of ignoring context?
🙂
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Given our stance is backed up by the fact that he was being killed by the sarlaac something Shaak herself could sense and your stance is backed up by nothing at all I think anybody reading the debate knows which stance is speculative and which isn't.
Except if he makes an attack that sufficiently powerful to harm Shaak than the most immediate casualty would be the Saarlac 😬
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
That's not saying Shaak only used the beast once. It was saying that she used the beast during that segment of the fight and whenever it attacked Galen he repulsed it and continued to fight her.
Novel never notes her using it again, so no.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
He's also being attacked by Shaak simultaneously and that's the point.
Nah.
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
If the comic notes that the flora and fauna is being used against Galen in one panel then later uses the sarlaac against him in another then no, that's now what the sentence is referencing. You seem to be a fan of assuming one thing means another simply because it wasn't shown.
mmm
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Funfact: Zoltan was the only one who's responses to Emp I had no trouble understanding the context of or responding to. As always his points were bullshit attempts at ignoring context, misdirection and ad hominem. Congrats Zoltan. You're literally the most predictable and easy to debate opponent here. 🙂
That's quite funny considering you didn't actually understand shit. Your IQ is literally so f-ucking low that you can't comprehend an image 🙂
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
That's quite funny considering you didn't actually understand shit. Your IQ is literally so f-ucking low that you can't comprehend an image 🙂
Zoltan. Putting all your saltiness aside for a second. Do you really expect somebody to believe the images circled below
are her horns?
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Well I'm sorry that you are so hilarious incompetent that you can't distuingish a narrow "tentacle" from an arm in baggy sleeves. There's no need to be upset tho.
The arm in "baggy sleeves" is to the RIGHT side of the mass. You're claim of where the horns are would mean the entire mass that's supposed to be her body including the "baggy sleeves" is shifted sideways for some reason, this is discounting the extra mass you're claiming to be a tentacle.
Please. Just stop before you embarrass yourself further.
Originally posted by MythLord
The top one is obviously her horn. The bottom one is her lekku, yes. It's easy to differentiate.
He's claiming that both the left masses spouting out from what's supposed to be her body are the horns though. Meaning he believes the mass on the upper right is a lekku or a tentacle while the one on the mid right is an arm despite that making no sense as a body can't physically contort that way.
Originally posted by MythLord
Is anyone actually reading Syn's posts? I'm just focusing on DMB, honestly. If he drops out, then I drop out. Zoltan can handle Syn.
I usually don't, in a moment of weakness I did it tho, and it was so funny I had to reply. But that was the last time 🙂
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Zoltan. Putting all your saltiness aside for a second. Do you really expect somebody to believe the images circled beloware her horns?
Well they are called Lekkus, and they are more like tentacles than horns, but yes, it's quite obvious really. I'm sorry about your handicap.
I made a quick visual comparison for the mentally challenged 🙂