Originally posted by carver9
Galan, you don't think Jiren shaking the world of Void with a partial of his power puts him on or above Beerus?
Yes Galan, tell us if you want to be remotely in step with someone who argued this:
Originally posted by carver9
Can Hit time stop Zeno?I never said that Zeno was time manipulating anything during that scene. I brought that scene up because Zeno power transcends time and space.
Whis is>>>a partial piece of the Cosmic cube. The cube is Universal at best. Whis tap Universal beings across the head koing them.
Him reversing time is time traveling. He's traveling BACK in time. Lol.. and Whis is FAR above a Beyonder. Starbrand killed one with a planetary level attack.
That wouldn't even tickle Whis. The guy stood in the heart of a planet exploding while smiling. And Abyss, a Hulk level character, him and his family turned a Beyonder into a Tree.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142536/4474972-new+avengers+032-015.jpg
These are the same beings that killed LT and the Celestial race. You honestly don't have a solid argument right now.
Originally posted by carver9Not at all, no.
Galan, you don't think Jiren shaking the world of Void with a partial of his power puts him on or above Beerus?
Once the ToP has wrapped up, Jiren *might* definitively prove himself to be > Beerus, but as of now he's not on that level, imo. He's close, though.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZThe GoDs have attained UI to an extent, but as Whis has noted on a few occasions- not even Beerus has mastered it:
Both did.Ultra Instinct Goku shaking it is precisely why the feat doesn't put him above Beerus. The GoD's have attained Ultra Instinct, and Beerus, along with Quitela, is the mightiest GoD.
Once Goku masters UI(and he inevitably will), he will be > all Destroyers... Possibly even the Angels as well.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Both did.Ultra Instinct Goku shaking it is precisely why the feat doesn't put him above Beerus. The GoD's have attained Ultra Instinct, and Beerus, along with Quitela, is the mightiest GoD.
I think when Goku was coming up out of the dirt in his new form and Whis asked him "Beerus, do you have anything to say", while smiling, Whis wanted Beerus to bring up Goku power level vs his.
Originally posted by cdtmWhis has outright stated(in both the anime and manga) that once the Saiyans *master* UI, they will be able to defeat ANY opponent. Given the power/ability Jiren has displayed thus far, I'd say he definitely uses UI to an extent(effortlessly trouncing Hit and his time-skip alone is indicative of such, imo)... But I don't think he's fully mastered it yet, otherwise he'd logically transcend ALL of the GoDs w/o much issue.
Jiren isn't above angels. Has he mastered it?Is he even using it?
Can Dragon Ball ever beat Superman?
Don't answer the last one, the answer is "never".
Given what we know about Jiren, however, I'd say he's more proficient with UI than all of the GoDs barring Beerus and Quitela(assuming he does in fact use it.) I mean, he wasn't exactly surprised by UI when Goku unlocked UI -- in fact, he seemed quite familiar with the ability, and even seemed to know its limitations. /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007
The GoDs have attained UI to an extent, but as Whis has noted on a few occasions- not even Beerus has mastered it:
https://i.imgur.com/pu3CFdS.jpgOnce Goku masters UI(and he inevitably will), he will be > all Destroyers... Possibly even the Angels as well.
Yes, but Goku, even by the end of this tournament, has only just attained Ultra Instinct. God knows how long the likes of Beerus has had it. I don't think it's 100% certain that Goku will be above Beerus by the end of this tournament. Later, absolutely.
The angels have also completely mastered UI, so Goku will probably have to reach some level beyond even that.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZI think Goku will certainly be on par with Beerus by the end of the ToP -- beating Jiren alone would indicate such, imo, given that Jiren is already > some of the GoDs.
Yes, but Goku, even by the end of this tournament, has only just attained Ultra Instinct. God knows how long the likes of Beerus has had it. I don't think it's 100% certain that Goku will be above Beerus by the end of this tournament. Later, absolutely.
...But if Goku ends up surpassing Beerus by the end of this arc, I wouldn't be surprised either. That's been Toriyama's endgame since DBS's inception, after all. /shrug
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ*enter SSJUI* g007_teehee
The angels have also completely mastered UI, so Goku will probably have to reach some level beyond even that.
Originally posted by Galan007
I think Goku will certainly be on par with Beerus by the end of the ToP -- beating Jiren alonewould indicate such, imo....But if he surpasses Beerus by the end of this arc, I wouldn't be surprised either. That's been Toriyama's endgame since DBS's inception, after all. /shrug
*enter SSJUI*
You really never know, with Beerus. Many times in DBS it seems like Goku has finally surpassed him, only for that to not be the case. I'm not gonna definitively say Jiren or UI Goku is above Beerus or vice versa quite yet.
And if that's toriyama's end game, it won't happen by the end of this arc. Because this isn't the last arc in DBS.
👆 Goku will train under Daishinkan to master something beyond UI.
It could definitely help the ratings.
It's funny that they dropped off only in Japan and not overseas though. Wonder what the reason is.. Could it be the land of used panty vending machines has viewers with better taste and standards then our slackjawed otaku when it comes to anime? They'll watch someone eat poop in porn, but Dragon Ball Super is just too horrible for them?
