New spoilers have come out stating that
Spoiler:
Vegeta "doesn't even put up a decent fight against Jiren." So he's still below Hit. Also, 17 uses his whole body to paralyze Toppo, and tells Gohan to take him and Toppo out together. Gohan hesitates and loses the opportunity to do so. I bet 17 gets knocked out here.
Originally posted by carver9
He got merked by Vegeta and Goku. Black is nothing to Jiren. Also, it appears Goku have that "get stronger while you fight" thing going on and he still isn't on Jiren level. Black would get one punch killed.
kisss
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
> "Black would surpass Jiren"> Current Blue Goku has far surpassed Black as of the Black Arc
> Current Goku can go KKx20
> Current SSJB Goku KKx20 with a spirit bomb that is as powerful as SSJ Kefla gets glared away by a heavily suppressed Jiren
Yeah, no, Jiren would handle Black like he handled Maji Kayo:
kisss
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
The no limits fallacy dickriding for Black has gotten old tbh.
kisss
I love you guys.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
New spoilers have come out stating thatSpoiler:
Vegeta "doesn't even put up a decent fight against Jiren." So he's still below Hit. Also, 17 uses his whole body to paralyze Toppo, and tells Gohan to take him and Toppo out together. Gohan hesitates and loses the opportunity to do so. I bet 17 gets knocked out here.
Spoiler:
17 really shouldnt be able to paralyze Toppo...imo
Spoilers.
YouTube video
Spoiler:
Vegeta utterly fails again.
He'll do it under the 'right' circumstances. For example, when OldKai brought up the possibility of unlocking Goku's abilities prior to the ToP, Goku was all for it(as was Beerus.) The ONLY reason OldKai didn't proceed with the unlock is because there simply wasn't enough time -- the ritual takes ~25hrs to complete, and there was only like 12hrs before the ToP started. Had there been enough time, however, we would have undoubtedly seen 'Mystic' Goku enter the Tourney, imo.
Normally, though, I agree... Goku's all about reaching new peaks on his own. That's why he was bummed out after originally becoming SSG -- it was a level he didn't achieve on his own. That said, Goku was still willing to undergo the SSG ritual in the first place, because the alternative was Beerus destroying the earth, along with all of his friends/family.
Originally posted by Galan007
He'll do it under the 'right' circumstances. For example, when OldKai brought up the possibility of unlocking Goku's abilities prior to the ToP, Goku was all for it(as was Beerus.) The ONLY reason OldKai didn't proceed with the unlock is because there simply wasn't enough time -- the ritual takes ~25hrs to complete, and there was only like 12hrs before the ToP started.
Which is bullshit, because they had the RoSAT.
Originally posted by NewGuy01Really easy solution that could fix everything from a writing standpoint :
Which is bullshit, because they had the RoSAT.
1: Piccolo and Gohan are already using the RoSat to train in and have locked the door behind them. Dende has since modified the chamber's 2 day per lifetime restriction (hence Goku and Vegeta training inside the chamber for three days prior to the U6 tournament)., but the Cell arc's 2 man restriction is once again imposed in order to compensate for the change.
2. It was initially discussed that Old Kai use his powers on Goku, but Beerus decides it's better off being used on the humans to better balance the overall team. As such, Old Kai uses his technique on Roshi, Krillin and Tien. It turns out that he has perfected his technique since the Buu saga (wanting to be prepared in case there is ever another universal threat) , thus requires only 15 hours per person and with even better results. To avoid making this too convenient, we'll throw in the drawback of your lifespan being shaved by 20 years.
With this, human gains now make sense, Gohan and Piccolo's gains now make sense and we don't have to question why Old Kai doesn't unlock Goku's hidden potential.
Originally posted by Galan007
Goku's all about reaching new peaks on his own. That's why he was bummed out after originally becoming SSG -- it was a level he didn't achieve on his own.
If I am remembering right, then I hate that they retconned that. Being bummed about the conditions to unlock SSJG made sense for Goku's character, rather than wanting to have things handed to him, but since he was more recently open to the Elder Kai ritual power-up thing, screw that I guess.
🙄
Another thing, still not totally certain if the Old Kia could do anything for Gohan,
I mean, he supposedly already unlocked his full potential. How many times should he be able to do that? Because, if the answer is "as many times as he wants", the the humans should spend all day, every day getting boosted, as they're the ones that need it most.
But assuming Gohan had some more potential, for some reason, whether it can unlock UI depends on what the spirit bomb actually did to Goku. Yes, it unlocked his potential deep within, but was that because it boosts his power? Or was it because he was gonna die, and a near death experience is the only way to unlock the power?
The latter is supported by the fact that, so far, Goku has never used it at will yet. In both cases, he was pretty much screwed, making it look like It's an extreme survival mechanism at this point, which strength training would not unlock (Nor, in theory, a normal "potential unlock", which typically merely raises fighting power..)
Originally posted by NewGuy01True, although the gains Goku would see by allowing OldKai to unlock his potential are likely FAR beyond the gains he could ever see by training in the RoSaT nowadays. /shrug
Which is bullshit, because they had the RoSAT.
Originally posted by Ridley_PrimeReally?
I thought that was only in the movie version of BotG? In the DBS arc version, from what I remember, he was just happy and excited to have that new power regardless of how.If I am remembering right, then I hate that they retconned that. Being bummed about the conditions to unlock SSJG made sense for Goku's character, rather than wanting to have things handed to him, but since he was more recently open to the Elder Kai ritual power-up thing, screw that I guess.
🙄
That's a stupid edit to make. 👇
Originally posted by cdtmThat's Gohan, though. His gimmick has always been 'unbounded' potential... Especially during Z.
Another thing, still not totally certain if the Old Kia could do anything for Gohan,I mean, he supposedly already unlocked his full potential. How many times should he be able to do that? Because, if the answer is "as many times as he wants", the the humans should spend all day, every day getting boosted, as they're the ones that need it most.
Hell, Guru's unlock was supposed to have summoned all of his latent potential as well, but as we saw in subsequent sagas: it didn't even scratch the surface.
Originally posted by Galan007
True, although the gains Goku would see by allowing OldKai to unlock his potential are likely FAR beyond the gains he could ever see by training in the RoSaT nowadays.
I think his point was that they could have gone into the ROSAT for Old Kai to unlock Goku's potential.